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Daystate huntsman regal power curve

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by brett23, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. brett23

    brett23 Active Member

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    hi all
    my son has just purchased the regal and started sighting in yesterday
    he filled it to 200bar as specked on the rifle and started to zero.
    straight away we noticed after two or three fills that there is a 3inch start off
    drop when filled to the 200 bar then it creeps up back to zero and stays there for maybe 30 / 40 shots approx.
    is this normal to have that much discrepancy at the beginning of a fill
    cheers
    brett
     
  2. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Busy Member

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    Mine certainly isn't like that and I haven't heard of any others. I would contact Daystate technical department which from memory is only open from 4.30 till 5.30 each day, check on their website.
     
  3. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    You need to run it over a chrono to see exactly what's going on. You should have a sweet spot by all means and your first few shots maybe a few fps down but a 3" drop suggests a couple of hundred fps drop which isn't normal. I would expect that as the air has pretty much exhausted.
     
  4. The Robin

    The Robin Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Do you have a chrono? If so do a full shot string and see what's going on because it should be pretty steady over the charge
     
  5. Grumpyoldman

    Grumpyoldman Very Active

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    Sounds like over filling , my ranger has a sweet spot from 190 bar although it can fill to 210 , try a 190 fill and see if this resolves the problem , i you look on the daystate owners site a lot off regals have gone back , if you have a chrono its probably around 10,4 ft lbs as daystate like to stay on the safe side out of the factory
     
  6. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    The Regal is not regulated. Therefore there will be a change due to the pressure acting on the back of the valve that hammer has to overcome. Try filling to 180BAR and shooting down to 120BAR (read the pressure from the bottle guage, NOT the rifle guage. They are a guide to how full the cylinder is, but they can never be very accurate.) How do you know when it has dropped to 120? Shoot until the point of impact goes off and then connect the riifle and see what pressure is left - I bet it won't be far off, you may be lucky and get down to 110BAR. As you do this, COUNT THE NUMBER OF SHOTS. Alternatively, count out 70 pellets, and starting at 180BAR, shoot them all, then check the pressure.

    Regardless of the Harper valve system, there is still a power curve. Only a regulator can overcome this. The Harper valve system simply reduces the amount of WASTED air at the end of each shot by closing the valve and overcoming the hammer bounce that then hits the valve slightly and lets a little puff of air out each time AFTER the shot. The way the hammer works is:
    The striker flies forward under spring pressure and hits the stem of the valve to open it - just like if you tapped a match on the valve stem of a tyre valve to let the pressure out a bit. In order to overcome the 3000psi pressure holding the valve shut, in addition to the valve spring pressure, the hammer spring needs to be fairly powerful and carefully balanced in weight against the valve spring and air pressure. Due to the hammer spring pressure, when it hits the failry resistent valve, a normal hammer bounces - exactly like a hammer hitting a nail bounces and you get a slight double tap. The Harper system uses inertia to strike the valve by driving a free floating hammer forward carried by an outer casing. The outer carrier hits the stop to the side (all round) the valve. The free floating hammer carries on under inertia, like a loose object in a car in a collision, and flies forward to hit the valve. Because there is no spring on this free-floating part of the hammer when it bounces off the valve stem it stays off - if it were spring loaded the spring would drive it forward again, giving that double tap. THIS IS WHERE THE EXTRA EFFICIANCY OF THE HARPER SYSTEM OCCURS.

    Why doyou still have a power curve?
    Inside the rifle the reservoir cylinder is filled at VERY HIGH PRESSURE. 200BAR is 2800+ psi, or 100x the pressure in your car tyre. This pressure is acting on the back of the valve and holding it shut. The valve spring merely puts the valve in place against its seat, it is the pressure that actually does the sealing.

    The hammer spring is of a fixed weight/strength call it what you will. When that hammer spring is driving the valve open against 2800psi, it cannot hold it open for as long as when there is only 140BAR behind the valve. The differences are very small, but enough to show up on the target. Listen to the PHUTT when you pull the trigger - it is very fast. So the length of time the valve is open is minute, and the difference is even smaller - but it gives an idea of how precise these PCPs have to be to run well. The power curve evens out in the middle, the main part of the pressure fill - the numbers I gave should give you a very usable fill with little or no difference in point of impact.

    When you fill the rifle, it might be SAFE to pressure it to 200BAR, but that doesn't mean it efficient at that pressure. A manufacturer is obliged to put a SAFE WORKING PRESSURE =- that means the rifle won't blow up at that pressure, it doesn't mean it will be deadly accurate at it. Every rifle will have an individual performance curve, nothing is manufactured EXACTLY the same. Even things like the ambient air temperature, altitude or barometric pressure on the day will affect how the rifle performs. It is so small that only benchrest types who are trying for 100th of an inch acccuracy will notice it - but that doesn't meanit isn't there! Shoot your rifle at sea level, and then at the top of Ben Nevis and you will see a difference.

    The new rifle will also need a period of bedding in. All the moving parts have to polish themselves and get used to each other.
     
  7. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    very good in-depth write up on how some pcp's work from the above, glad you wrote that mate & not me :D

    regals can be & are good rifles plus they are under rated at the moment but they do need a bit time to be run in to get to there best working state just like a new car does, I would fill to 200 bar & top up again about 120 bar, you might get 60 to 80 shots when it is run in after say 500 too 1k of pellets & I know that sounds a lot but it is not trust me.
     
  8. brett23

    brett23 Active Member

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    cheers guys great info I appreciate it
    my son went back to the airgun centre today to buy some bits and as he was concerned about the rifle he took it with him they looked It over and changed the rifle over for a new one ,great service and nice guys as well
    but we will keep a close eye on this one hopefully all should be ok but thanks to you guys we will watch the pressures closely for best results
    cheers
    brett
     
  9. tombillings916

    tombillings916 Donator

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    Usually get about 90 shots out of my Regal filling it to 190bar and around 110 bar it starts to drop off - never had a problem with it so far, love it!
     
  10. Ozz3y86

    Ozz3y86 Banned

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    Sweet spot on my regal is fill to 190 shoot down to 110 get around 80 good shots
     
  11. brett23

    brett23 Active Member

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    my boy got a new huntsman and that one packed up after 300 plus shots ... needless to say he doesn't own a huntsman anymore he was just unlucky
     
  12. Ozz3y86

    Ozz3y86 Banned

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    Sorry to hear that mate. Mine has been spot on very accurate n consistent only a 15 fpe spread over a full fill spread of around 80 shots. Mine was 1 of the first ones too so I would of thought I would have all the problems.
    What has he gone for now?
     
  13. essex sniper

    essex sniper Banned

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    Mines ok and very accurate ...atb
     
  14. brett23

    brett23 Active Member

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    to say he's gutted is a understatement but he is quite a heavy shooter 750 in a sitting is not uncommon he's gone to the air wolf less stress on the bolt which was the main problem as with my air ranger same thing seizing bolt
     
  15. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    15 fpe is one hell of a spread :D
     
  16. brett23

    brett23 Active Member

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    pleased to hear it lovely guns
     
  17. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

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    It is isn't it?
    My old Prosport stays within 6fps and even the Cometa 300 stays within 10fps. :D. Ok, I didn't read the post properly!:D
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  18. Ozz3y86

    Ozz3y86 Banned

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    I meant fps. Might seem stupid here but I don't get the joke :confused:
     
  19. Ozz3y86

    Ozz3y86 Banned

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    This was over 10 shots but carried on testing over the whole fill and didn't change until it dropped under around 105bar
     

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  20. essex sniper

    essex sniper Banned

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    You wont get any replies now have shown you have a good rifle mate ....if your results was bad you'd have a 10 page thread lol
     

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