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Come On Air Arms - Time To Get Innovative!

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Dr B, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Dr B

    Dr B Grizzly Airgunner

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    As many of you may know, these days I only shoot with AAs (springers and PCPs). They may not be the most refined or modern airgun out there, but pound for pound I rate them as the best off-the-shelf airgun you can get.

    My standard TX is the best springer I’ve had (as standard) – and I’m looking forward to what the TL conversion kit Mike has fitted can do (watch out for Mike’s upcoming write up). Don’t get me wrong – I’ve had some nice HW80s back in the day (all MKIIs) and I loved them, but rose-tinted nostalgia will not dilute my opinion that the TX, off the shelf, knocks socks off it.

    The PCPs are very precise to shoot, very consistent, well made, and well thought out (on the whole and except for the old S410 indexing arm). An old fart like me can still get 5p groupings at 35-40yds sitting with these units. On the whole they don’t leak, I like the fact they are not regulated and they continue to do what they were always supposed to do. There will always be exceptions – but I’m sure you get my meaning.

    Having said the above, I’m no uncritical fan-boy. At the end of the day I need an airgun that can perform, deliver the goods, and do so day in and day out. However, I am concerned that some of the internal materials might not be made from the same high grade materials they once were and that this might reflect corner cutting in the interests of commercial margins.

    In addition, it really is time for something new from them in the world of sporter / hunter rifles and not just the target genre. I probably will get an S510 at some point, but let’s be honest, its identical to the S410 in most ways and I’ve already got two of them. Perhaps AA will consider a new buddy-bottle set up? Something ‘Rapid-esq’ but with the AA thought process applied? A high capacity, multi-shot, LW barrelled tac-driver sat in a well conceived Minelli walnut stock perhaps? I love my AAs but it’s time for some innovation. Come on AA, get the creative juices going. It’s been too long since the launch of the S410 – time to push the boundaries for the fieldsman.

    Let’s hear your thoughts either on AAs philosophy, or the manufactures you use – though please don’t ‘bash’ anyone, let’s just hear your musings and honest reflections on what you’d like to see happen.

    The T-Rex HC - IMO pound for pound the best off-the-shelf springer.
    Fig_13bnew.jpg

    The S410K - "The tiger" - Cloverleaf tuned, sings like a bird. Never missed a beat in the field in over 14 years.
    Fig_14new.jpg

    The Classic, in a Walnut thumbhole (also Cloverleaf tuned) - very ergonomic, lovely to shoot, deadly precise. No issues in 8 years of shooting it.
    Fig_16new.jpg

    The Classic does not look too bad in a GC walnut Tyro either - would be nice if AA did similar options.

    DSC_9077.jpg

    DSC_9084.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  2. PumpnGun

    PumpnGun Donator

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    My recently acquired S400 gives my HW100 a run for it's money, cracking rifle in my opinion and my first AA, It won't happen Dr B but I'd love to see them do a Break Barrel..

    Ray
     
  3. Robgriff1

    Robgriff1 Very Active

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    I do love my air arms I have 4 air arms springers and I wouldn’t be with any of them I find their off the shelf stocks about the best out there, they’re very well made and do everything you need them too I’ve never had the pleasure of a air arms pcp there are others I’d go for before considering a air arms to be honest,
    I’d like to see air arms make some more springers especially break barrels so they can compete with weihrauch as they’ve flooded the market with many which are also excellent but the stocks can be very bland and they normally need some kind of fettling to get them spot on.
     
  4. Dr B

    Dr B Grizzly Airgunner

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    Cheers Ray
    I always fancied a Pro-Elite. Never got one :facepalm:
    You wont go wrong with the 400 :thumb:
     
    PumpnGun likes this.
  5. Dr B

    Dr B Grizzly Airgunner

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    I wonder if AA have laid off the break-barrel springers to leave room for HW? I dunno.....but if AA did bring the Pro-Elite back (or a modern take on it) it might make HW improve their production line finishing. :thumb:
     
  6. Robgriff1

    Robgriff1 Very Active

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    I’m lucky enough to have a pro elite which is similar to a hw80 with a hw98 barrel with a cs500 stock, i’d like air arms to make a newer pro elite or something like the hw95 which has the smaller/narrower comp cylinder
     
    PumpnGun and Dr B like this.
  7. Wofty

    Wofty 'This is the way'

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    I've only got two 200's so technically not really true AA. However when I browse the dealers I'm always drawn to AA and Daystate. Upon closer inspection I find the Air Arms to have beautifully shaped traditional Stocks but the actions seem 'bitty' as if they've been cobbled together in a shed as a proof of concept.
    In comparison the daystates and Weihrauch's are just slick.
    Talking about springers (my favourites) I don't think we will ever see any further true mainstream development. It's a commercial dead-end. Feinwerkbau, Diana etc really pushed the concept of recoiless springers with superfine match triggers. But they were driven by international top flight competition. That boat has long sailed. Any further springer endeavours tend to end up in bankruptcy.
    Luckily there is a hard core band of tuners that have really grasped the science behind the boing and are taking your bog standard springer and turning it into a mechanical joy. They do so with the application of knowledge as to springer physics, not by overcoming it with technical innovation. Rather like a plane compared to a helicopter. One wants to fly the other does so by man's sheer stubbornness and technical mastery.
    Also it appears AA are sticking to Weihrauch's approach of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it ' although they are far less ultra conservative. Look at the utter flops being the Galahad and 510 TC. Meanwhile the 400 series has continued to sell and provide the margins they need.
    I think @robs5230 wrote to AA enquiring about a top notch break barrel. It ain't gunna happen.
    So I would imagine AA will introduce another bullpup that doesn't make your eyes bleed and continue punting out incarnations of what works already.
    It is my goal this year to get a 'proper' AA which will be TX or Prosport.
     
  8. Robgriff1

    Robgriff1 Very Active

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    I can highly recommended either the ps or tx out the box excellent tuned exceptional
     
    Husky-loves-to-run and Dr B like this.
  9. Teuchter Boy

    Teuchter Boy Engaging Member

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    I would agree with the op's comments. I have a prosport and s410, both great and accurate rifles but would like to see AA push a bit more on the FAC side of things, be that a larger capacity cylinder gun like the streamline or, heaven forbid, a nice looking bottle gun. I appreciate what they got works and does so without issue and to a high standard, but would like to see what they could dream up to compete with FX and Daystate etc....
     
    Rotherham Owl and Dr B like this.
  10. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Some tasty looking rifles there! My better half had a 400 some years back & fitted it in a MPR stock, cracking rifle it was.
    before the great uk neil mods.jpg 160620114105.jpg Her before a back OP went wrong: 151020115917.jpg 151020115920.jpg 151020115922.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    talent, Blue BSA and Dr B like this.
  11. Seamaster

    Seamaster Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I too would love an Air Arms break barrel.
    I think Air Arms have a similar mindset with their 400 series as HW have with their 100. Both rifles have had a few subtle changes over the years but both manufacturers are loath to change what is already a fine and top selling rifle.
    Daystate are often criticised and perceived as changing for changes sake and, unless a significant pile of investment takes place, I think both HW and AA will carry on ticking over.
     
  12. Nifty77

    Nifty77 Engaging Member

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    I'd love an Air Arms break barrel too! From reading previous threads, it would seem that every springer shooter would love one.....but when asked, AA said they didn't think there was a market for it (i.e. can't be ar$ed)!
     
    Dr B and PumpnGun like this.
  13. bucketboy

    bucketboy Very Active

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    While it could be argued (and rightly so) that bottle guns are not the prettiest things, there can be no denying that the extra storage capacity with little or no weight gain (particularly with a carbon bottle) is a definite bonus at fac levels.
    IMO Having a larger Dia barrel with no barrel band helps the gun keep zero if the moderator gets a knock against a tree, and who hasn’t done that stumbling through the woods at night?

    A block made from 1 billet of aluminium is always going to be more rigid than one made from multiple pieces bolted together. It is no secret that I like rapids, having a rapid type gun build to AA standards of QC with a side cocking lever would definitely get my juices flowing.


    Bb
     
  14. robthedog

    robthedog Posting Addict

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    I returned to airguns in 2016, & went mostly with what i had back in the 80's hw's, but in April i got a full length tx & have now aquired a rare lefty prosport(i am left handed), yes out of the box AA are the best, my Paul Short full length 77 is sublime, but the tx is a more accurate rifle, just need Paul to tune that one for me know...
     
    Reevo17 and Dr B like this.
  15. robs5230

    robs5230 Oversprung

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    Air Arms certainly have the ability to create a true game changer in both PCP and Springer format.

    They appear to have just fallen in with the crowd on pcp's with the bullpup fetish and they have so far refused to release the break barrel they have already built as a prototype.

    Innovation seems to be the domain of other countries now.
     
    TORNADOS7, Robgriff1 and Dr B like this.
  16. jimbouk

    jimbouk Donator

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    I agree dr b, I think they need to bring something new to market and up their game.

    I would like to see a re worked galahad, free floating barrel, semi bullpup with cheekpiece and a cf bottle. Kind of along the lines of brocock sniper.

    Although the galahad was a pig to look at I actually found it very good in the shoulder.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  17. TonyB55

    TonyB55 Engaging Member

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    There is a problem when new boys on the block start taking market share. Guns made in Russia, Turkey and the Ukraine are giving shooters what they want. The British air rifle manufacturers seem to be going the way of the British motorcycle companies. Convinced they are better they don't see the need for innovation. Daystate put a mickey mouse printed circuit board in a rifle coupled with a solenoid, call it progress, and charge an arm and a leg for it. Whilst the old guard support them the do not see the need to change, the end will come quickly when it comes.
     
    talent and Dr B like this.
  18. Rotherham Owl

    Rotherham Owl It's all about the enthusiasm!

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    The demand for a break-barrel rifle has been there for years.

    Although there may have been prototypes of such an offering around for some time, and Air Arms are well capable of producing a class act break-barrel, I believe that commercially it would be difficult to make it a success. Saying this, I would like to see one anyway as even if it was not particularly profitable it would be great to see one in Air Arms's portfolio.

    However, it needs to be taken into account that every sale of an Air Arms break-barrel could mean one less sale of a TX - someone carrying out research into the best sole springer to own is unlikely to decide on a break-barrel over an under-lever.

    All things balanced I feel it is unlikely there will be an Air Arms break-barrel any time soon.

    The S510TC satisfies the need for a greater shot count but it is not to every ones liking. I don't know how successful it has been but would guess not great.

    I'm not a big fan of buddy bottle rifles but I feel this could be where Air Arms could develop an offering that could be a market leader. A simple, reliable rifle like the 400 sat in a nice stock and designed to take a buddy bottle. Think of a more refined, modern day Rapid. Now that I believe would be something worth developing.
     
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  19. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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    I've come to the same conclusion as you over the years buddy, AA's TX/S400 series of rifles are probably the best "off the shelf" rifles you can lay yer grubby mits on, period...

    Yes, other rifles may well be better once fettled/tuned and in some cases "completely rebuilt" but as a basic buy it, take it out and hit what you aim at "rifle" they're second to none...

    But yes, yer right, I think AA's earlier approach to building basic airguns has gotten a little lost along the way somewhere...

    Like you say, a "nice" basic, no frills "Rapid'esque" styled buddy bottle rifle could well be the one to smash the competition into submission...

    I can hear my credit card groaning already... :D:up:
     
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  20. Blue BSA

    Blue BSA Big Poster

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    Some plain synthetic stocks across the range or plainer wood. Look at Weihrauch. It just seems to me the last generation stocks were nicer looking.

    [​IMG]



    Do something with the muzzle end of the TX200, it is lacking compared to the HW97.

    And I still think there is a market for a super springer. I think the market for PCP's is going to run out of steam soon as they are so reliable (mostly!). In 10 years we will all have rifles like the current Daystates and they will all be mega wonderful and mega boring.

    [​IMG]
     
    talent, Cinimod, robthedog and 4 others like this.

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