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Co2 To Hpa

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Johnc61, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Johnc61

    Johnc61 Donator

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    ok, just a curiosity question, if the future shows a CO2 issue, how possible could all the airguns using small and large CO2 cartridge capsules have a HPA equivalent?

    Some have a hose connection to a big HPA bottle already but could a similar size CO2 cartridge capsule be a direct swap to same size hpa one?
     
  2. Spray1Mark

    Spray1Mark Pro Poster

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    Its been done already, the main problem with HPA use is that it destroys the seals in CO2 guns, as the CO2 contains a lubricant whilst HPA does not, even best fittings warn you of this when converting the SIG to HPA.
     
  3. Squirrelking

    Squirrelking Donator

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    Not sure the seals would make any difference, they are made from the same material after all. I'm running a King Rat that's holding as tight as a nut.

    Anyway, yes you could get a direct replacement but IIRC they were rather dodgy in terms of whether they were safe or not. I imagine if things got that bad you would have more to worry about than your CO2 pistol tbh.
     
  4. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Nooo! Seals in most CO2 guns definitely aren't standard Nitrile; my guess is HNBR as IIRC it's more tolerant of low temperatures and isn't CO2 permeable. That said, I think Steyr also use HNBR and their seals last forever.

    Biggest two problems when converting CO2 to Air are

    a) Pressure - CO2 guns run at much lower pressure, so the air source must be regged to avoid overpressurising the gun with resultant functionality and safety issues.
    b) Capacity - CO2 is much more energy dense than air since it liquifies under pressure, so guns that take particularly small vessels (i.e. 12g bulbs) would give very few shots per charge; especially factoring in the need to integrate a reg and use thicker walls to contain the higher pressures.

    Air conversions on many rifles are pretty straightforward using cheap and available regged paintball cylinders. Pistols not so much; a couple of people (LJ Cammell and Brocock) have tried to make replacement CO2 bulbs, all with limited success.

    End of the day many of the guns are cheap and cheerful anyway, so if CO2 did get binned I think most would simply be written off. There is the odd exception of course.

    It's always struck me that CO2 is legally available as a power source; but then to put it into perspective 60 shots through a Umarex clone pistol releases about the same amount of CO2 into the atmosphere as a family car travelling a couple of hundred metres..
     
  5. Johnc61

    Johnc61 Donator

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    Great answers, thank you :). Knew there was a shoot amount problem due to liquid CO2 producing its pressure versus HPA not liquid so reduced pressure amount = reduced shots. Didn’t know seal issue so that could be improved if correct material known. It really is a shame if many of the CO2 pistols disappeared. CO2 amount shouldn’t be an issue but given the overall airgun issue with public, government, police etc. (Poor Scotland as suffered example) then CO2 could just be wrongly emphasised against us. As you said, car use (aircraft, trains, lorries!) and fossil fuel are far worse, so let’s hope airguns are excluded.
     
  6. Squirrelking

    Squirrelking Donator

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    Huh, I just assumed (see, there's where I went wrong!) the seals would be the same.

    It always struck me as odd that CO2 is fine to use as a power source but no other gas is. What's wrong with nitrogen for example? But yeah, CO2 has far more important uses up the food chain. Like abbotoirs. And power generation. They're slightly more important than plinking guns.
     

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