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Cartridge Compatibility List For Replicas

Discussion in 'Replica Airguns' started by Headhunter, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

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    Just thought I'd post this for reference for all, I'll try to keep it updated as time progresses and as new guns are released.

    Dan Wesson 715 shells are compatible with;
    ASG DW715 revolvers (obviously),
    ASG Dan Wesson first gen revolvers,
    Black Ops revolvers,
    Bonner super sport revolvers,
    Umarex Legends S25, S40 & S60 revolvers,
    Umarex S&W M&P 327 TRR8 revolvers,
    Crosman 'Sheridan' Cowboy revolver,
    Remington 1875 revolver,
    Crosman SN & SNR .357 revolvers,
    Chiappa Rhino,

    Note; the Chiappa Rhino has a small indented ring that sits above the rim of the cartridge to allow the use of their proprietary speedloader, in all other respects it is identical to the DW715 cartridge shells.


    Colt SAA shells are compatible with;
    Umarex Colt SAA 'Peacemaker' revolvers (obviously),
    Umarex Cowboy rifle,
    Umarex Colt Python revolvers,
    KWC Python revolvers,
    Diana Raptor revolvers,
    Swiss Arms .357 revolver,
    Gletcher CLT B25, B4 & B6 revolvers,

    Webley mkVI shells are compatible with;
    Webley mkVI (obviously),
    ASG Scholfield (including the 'Bear River' version)

    Gletcher Nagant shells are not compatible with any other revolvers.


    Picture comparisons
    Note: For uniformity, all shells depicted are the pellet versions.

    shell comparison - height 2.jpg
    shell comparison - height.jpg
    Height comparison
    (left to right, DW715, Colt SAA, Webley & Nagant). The lower picture exaggerates the difference slightly (due to perspective) more than the upper picture.


    shell comparison - rims.jpg
    Rim size comparison (left to right, DW715, Colt SAA, Webley & Nagant). Notice the overly large Colt SAA rim when compared to either the Webley or DW715 rim size.

    The shells increase in cartridge diameter slightly from right to left (Nagant to DW715), with the Nagant and DW715 being almost identical to their real world counterparts (7.62mm & .357 magnum respectively), whilst the Colt SAA & Webley are nowhere near their respective real world counterparts.

    The perfectionist in me....

    It would've been nice to have seen the Colt SAA shells in .45 long Colt and in .455 Webley for the Webley mkVI. I would have been overjoyed if they had made the Schofield in a .45 shell size too but again S&W .45 shells were actually shorter than the Colt .45 shells in the real world which led to compatibility problems (S&W cartridges would fit in a Colt SAA but Colt cartridges would not fit into a Schofield).

    I'm hoping to be able to add the Chiappa Rhino to the DW715 compatible shell list as soon as I can get confirmation. (information now added to compatibility list 2/10/20)

    edit. - I would like to thank @Modski66 , for his help in compiling and proof reading this information for me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
    Eppy, Wild Bill, Dennyboy and 14 others like this.
  2. Grey Man

    Grey Man Keyboard Hero

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    Thanks. Bookmarked. I've been wondering about this very subject.

    Perhaps this should be a sticky.
     
  3. TalinMoracius

    TalinMoracius Arch nemesis of Colonel Heinz

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    The DW715 shells are one-way usable with the Umarex colt revolvers (I would NOT try them in the underlever rifle) - the fit isn't perfect, there's a little play but I've never noticed it be enough to stop me bashing cans.

    I seem to remember the Webley and DW715 shells being interchangeable as well, though I haven't done it recently so I'll have to try it and report back.
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

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    Yeah, I'd heard the very same thing but when I tried it myself I noticed that some pellets (not all) were clipping the forcing cone the Colt SAA on their transition from shell to barrel. I decided to stop doing it after that, I've got enough Colt SAA shells that it was just an experiment to see 'what if', other people might want to try it out though.

    I just wanted to throw up a list of full compatibility of shells between different revolvers, I thought that mentioning the one-way DW715 to Colt SAA fit might just 'muddy the waters' and possibly add to the overall confusion, so just for reasons of clarity I omitted it.

    @cloverleaf - Would it be possible to turn this into a sticky as @Grey Man & @Geezer suggested, seems a good idea.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  5. Douglas Soal

    Douglas Soal Pistol enthusiast for life.

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    That’s really helpful, thanks Headhunter
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  6. TalinMoracius

    TalinMoracius Arch nemesis of Colonel Heinz

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    Very fair point! I haven't experienced the clipping but I only tried a couple of shots to see what would happen, I have enough of each that I don't need to so given you've had the issue, I won't try it again
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  7. Geezer

    Geezer Keyboard Hero

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    This is an extremely good thread and should become a sticky. Thank you.

    It does prompt the question of how many of these different brands are made in the same factory in China or Taiwan. Maybe a subject for a different thread?
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  8. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

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    It does get confusing when either looking to do maintenance or (perish the thought) source spares to try to find out which guns come from which manufacturer. A sticky listing models against both distributor, e.g. Umarex, ASG, etc, and manufacturer, Wingun, KWC, etc. This would also allow useful items such as exploded diagrams and parts lists applicable to the individual model to be appended. Could even add links to details of mods.

    Just as an example, it looks very much like the Schofield and Webley come from the same factory. I even have my suspicions that not only do the Colt SAAs and Remington 1875 come from the same factory but may have identical internal parts.

    A few old hands seem to have quite a bit of knowledge of such issues, though most f it is only now coming into the public domain. Meantime I guess many a repairable gun has been scrapped for want of the information.

    Rob.
     
    garryt likes this.
  9. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

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    A fair point and it maybe a good topic for further development BUT unfortunately, seeing as how most RFDs can't be bothered to order spares from the distributors and the distributors will not deal directly with the public and the manufacturers will not deal with anybody but a distributor, you can see where having a list of manufacturers & distributors lacks the actual ability to serve any useful purpose. You'll be better off with the name of an actual RFD that can source the parts for you, without raping your bank account in the process (Dan from Crawley Surplus springs to mind for Umarex parts, as an example)

    Only a couple of days ago one of the forum members was trying to track a spare part down for an Umarex Colt SAA 'Ace in the hole' revolver, the distributor (Umarex) told him to contact his RFD and the RFD told him to contact Umarex, neither solution furnished an answer or for that matter, got anywhere near obtaining the actual part. As to why this happens ? I can only tell you a story that I know of first hand, a man walks into a RFD and buys a Remington RAC and uses it until it breaks (the hammer sear just wore away), man takes it back to the 'supposedly' respectable RFD for a repair, the RFD tells man "it's not worth the hassle, can't get spares, just buy another one", end of story you'd think, yes ? Well no, that's where I came in, used a hammer from a WE 1911 to repair a KWC 1911 (with a little fettling), so moral of story ? Firstly, don't trust RFDs, most of them are unscrupulous traders that have no gunsmithing skills and just want you to give them your hard earned cash and damn the customer service and secondly, it's not necessary to get an exact replacement part from the original manufacturer when others are available, albeit they do need a little bit of 'persuasion' to work properly.

    To make the very most of this hobby, you do need to be part shooter and part pistol smith, and if I'm being truthful, that's actually why I enjoy this hobby. I love to shoot and I love working on my guns in equal amounts. I'm not the only one on this forum who feels exactly the same way, eh @Modski66 ??? (the first guy that springs to mind, but boy does he love to 'tinker' lol) and there's a lot more of us here on the forum, that's why we freely give our advice and guidance on other people's gun gripes and problems.

    Why do we need diagrams, links and lists ? When all a person ever has to do is ask a question on this wonderful forum and sure enough, within a reasonable space of time they'll get an answer (might not be the one the wanted to hear, but it's an answer nonetheless lol).
     
    Eppy, Musket69, Yazz93 and 2 others like this.
  10. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

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    Thanks for the reply Headhunter. I must say I echo your sentiments about the majority of RFDs being unethical, ignorant and avaricious. I can't wholeheartedly agree that a single location for information wouldn't prove useful as it could be the very source for finding a suitable substitute part that can be fettled to suit. Identifying the actual manufacturer might be expected to yield similar parts and some distribution networks may prove more forthcoming than others. Exploded diagrams I find useful if only to get into my head how the mechanisms can be stripped and built, so often the Youtu.be videos have a hand in the way when it comes to the critical bits!

    So far I have partially stripped two of my pistols out of curiosity rather than necessity, though greasing the cylinder axle proved beneficial in both cases. Looking inside does also suggest places where improvements could be made when work becomes necessary in that area. An example would be to make and fit screws on the Schofield, as per the original, making stripping the cylinder simple. If my lathe weren't tragically misaligned I'd love to try gliding the inner barrel bushes so that they actually fit, too. That should dramatically improve cylinder lock up and probably accuracy too.

    Rob.

    Rob.
     
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  11. Modski66

    Modski66 Busy Member

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    Oh yes!
    I do like a good tinkering session in the shed... :D
     
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  12. garryt

    garryt Posting Addict

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    If anyone needs SAA spares, just ask me. I may well be able to help....:thumb:
     
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  13. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

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    Thanks very much for the offer of help! Let's hope most of us don't have to take you up on it. I still wonder whether the same parts would fit a Remington?

    Rob.
     
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  14. garryt

    garryt Posting Addict

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    Someone would need to split the gun and take some pics - we'd then know. Only revolvers I have are 2 x SAA's. It would not surprise me if the Rem shares internals at all.
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  15. Doyley83

    Doyley83 Previously 'thedoylemeister'

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    Would be great if the mods could sticky this one, it's a really helpful post.

    @Tadpole what is the process for creating a sticky?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
    Headhunter likes this.
  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

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    I've already asked @cloverleaf to turn this into a sticky thread after @Grey Man & @Geezer suggested exactly the same thing (post #4), maybe @Tadpole maybe able to help though.....:)
     
    Wild Bill likes this.
  17. Tadpole

    Tadpole Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Patience ... ;)
     
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  18. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Replica Airgun Enthusiast

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    @Headhunter
    Do you know if the pellet shells for the s25 legends revolver are the same as the pellet shells for the colt saa pellet? They look the same to me. But they are cheaper to buy.
     
  19. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

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    The Umarex Legends S25/S40/S60 shells are identical to the ASG Dan Wesson 715 shells, so there not an exact fit for the Umarex Colt SAA. They may create feeding problems in the shell loading Winchester but they may work (in an acceptable fashion) in the Colt SAA, but to be honest I wouldn't use them.

    If they fail to line up correctly in the cylinder they may cause pellet clipping (at the very least) or foul the forcing cone and lock the cylinder rotation (worst case scenario) which would mean that unfortunately you'd need the gun to be stripped down to remove the jammed pellet.
     
  20. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Replica Airgun Enthusiast

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    OK bud, and this is for the pellet shells? Not BB.

    EDIT:
    It was JS Ramsobottoms ebay page throwing me off. He shows the same photo for both the S25 pellet shells and the Colt SAA pellet shells. :facepalm:
     

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