1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Carbon Fibre Cylinders Lifespan and Testing Questions

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Witterings, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. Witterings

    Witterings Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Chichester, West Sussex
    Do the Carbon Fibre bottles have to be tested the same as "normal ones" every 5 years and if so I'm guessing the cost will be very similar???

    There's obviously the weight advantage but if they do need testing and the bottle only lasts a certain period of time before it has to be junked I'm struggling to see what the advantage is ... especially as they cost quite a bit more and you end up with something that costs the same "to run" but has no residual value at the end of it's lifespan.
     
  2. jantar

    jantar Donator

    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Whetstone, Leicesterhire
    From the leaflet I read while waiting for a re-charge at my usual charging station, and during the subsequent discussion on costs after reading it, I was told that the cost for a 4 litre stubby would be around 240 notes and that the lifespan of them was 25 years without any requirement to be tested again within that period. Hard to believe? Yes, I am still shocked too. Literally that to me means that they are a 'throw away' item. That said divide 240 by 25 and it is a hell of a lot lower than the 5 year fees that have to be paid for the steel or alloy ones.
    I'm having one as soon as the Xmas expense is over because it has everything going for it and the added bonus of a far lighter weight to hump around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  3. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

    Messages:
    2,933
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Calderdale
    Stealth hunter on here sells the, for around £100 for 9 litre some have 15 year life span others have 30 years worth dropping him a pm he will sort u out you only get bottle tho u need the din fittings ect from best fitting there was also another member who had a steady supply from fire stations ect use the search bar to find him as I can't remember his user name Hth Dave


    Edit ps ..... they still have to be tested every 5 years still as with any other cylinder
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  4. tintin

    tintin Engaging Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    South of Cirencester
  5. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

    Messages:
    2,933
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Calderdale
    Some one on here has access to a supply of them as instated earlier for around £100 real bargains get 3/5and 9 litre ones too atvb Dave
     
  6. 18 Wheeler

    18 Wheeler Busy Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Swadlincote
    -There did used to be some confusion regarding testing of composite cylinders, in that the obvious legislation appeared to only cover seamless Steel & seamless Aluminium cylinders (BS EN 1968: 2002 and BS EN 1802: 2002 respectively).

    -That clearly looked like an oversight and BS EN ISO 11623: 2002 Periodic inspection and testing of Composite Gas Cylinders is generally applied. In essence the testing requirement is that we are used to, 5 yearly hydro.

    I'm certain that none of the refill centres I've used would touch an out of test CF cylinder.

    Downsides? Composite cylinders are more easily damaged than steel/ally and the allowable defect list is relatively stringent, so some care needs to be exercised to ensure you make it to the end-of-life date.

    Lifespan should be marked on the cylinder and depends on construction. 15, 20 & 30 year usually.
     
  7. terry1001

    terry1001 Major Poster

    Messages:
    8,399
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    Location:
    Ipswich
    CF cylinders aren't ever used for diving as they are so light that the diver wouldn't if you see what I mean! They are now available with a longer life than at first, as some ahve said up to 30 years. I bought one from a member onhere who had quite a few for sale and, to be fair, it's likely to outlast me
    The light weight is an obvious advantage and if you look after it properly there should be no problems as they have the same safety margins as steel etc. I replaced a steel bottle which failed test because there was too much tolerance in the main thread which is checked with a go/no-go gauge.
     
  8. Witterings

    Witterings Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Chichester, West Sussex
    This is the bit that seems to be up for question and if that's so there's no advantage apart from weight of having one of these at all???? Does anyone know the definitive does it or doesn't it need to be tested every 5 years?????
     
  9. jantar

    jantar Donator

    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Whetstone, Leicesterhire
    Ah,
    I have now found a published leaflet that should clarify the rules.
    Pages 22 and 23 being the most relevant.
    This is the link;
    www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/standard/tpfw3.pdf

    Hope that helps.
    I will now not be buying one due to the lack of benefits to me, particularly the reduced testing period of 3 years!
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  10. 18 Wheeler

    18 Wheeler Busy Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Swadlincote
    Periodic testing requirements for all cylinders were reviewed in 2002, effective 01/01/2003, so that pdf is a little out of date.

    Here's a link to Luxfer, they only state "recommendations" as they are not a statutory body. However, BS EN ISO 11623 is the standard to which composite cylinders are held.

    If you need further clarification then you could call Best-Fittings and ask them, and call all the refill centres you use and ask them if they would be prepared to fill a CF cylinder which hasn't had a test within the last 5 years.
    HTH
     
  11. jantar

    jantar Donator

    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Whetstone, Leicesterhire
    Hm,
    I have already asked at my usual recharge station and was told that there was no periodic testing required so its back to square 1 again.
    I am trying to clarify this rule so all areas of the UK are covered. Not just individual charging stations.
    No=one appears to know the answer to this question which really does need to be addressed so no-one goes outside the law by ignorance.
    It is said that 'ignorance is no excuse in law' so how does that reflect if there is no published rules or laws that govern the subject matter?
    A great big catch 22 is what it is and it is time the government, particularly the HSE wallies got their act together and sorted this problem out.
    Maybe when a serious enough accident occurs it will cause such a stink that they will then run about like headless chickens looking for some else to shoulder the blame?
    Sadly, but as usual it is bound to go that way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  12. 18 Wheeler

    18 Wheeler Busy Member

    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Swadlincote
    The relevant standards are those above, they are expensive to buy but your refill centre should have access to a copy.

    If they are saying there's no retest required then ask them to prove it. Is this the same place selling cylinders?

    I'd get a second opinion, B-F are a reliable and knowledgeable bunch and try a few others.
     
  13. Paul Cann

    Paul Cann Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Watford
    Ten years ago I ran a nitrous company and carbon Fiber bottles were the latest "must have" lightweight nitrous oxide accessory for the boy racers, they cost a fortune and were in fact standard alloy ones that had been wrapped in carbon Fiber, I hope things have improved since then
     
  14. jantar

    jantar Donator

    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Whetstone, Leicesterhire
    As said earlier I have now received a response from the main manufacturer of the carbon cylinders and below is the text of that reply.
    This is the company who supply the greatest volume of sales of these cylinders to end users worldwide.
    The information in the quote below ( I have made bold the relevant bits) is clear that there is a 3 year mandatory test required every 3 years and a 15 year life after which the cylinder must be disposed of.
    That read I certainly will not be changing over because the gains are certainly not more than the losses and will only serve to vastly increase the costs. Steel for me it is.
    Sorry for the grammar but it was not written by me..........
    QUOTE:
    Thanks for your new inquiry, this is Tina from Jiujiang Fire Fighting Equipment Co ltd.
    We engaged in fire fighting products for over 20years in China.

    About the cylinders, we have 3 and 6.8L 300bar in stock. If you want, we could send it to you quickly.
    The lifespan is 15years for the brand-new cylinder, If you start to use it, and it could be using for 3years. Our cylinder is comply with your national standard and it be tested one by one before delivery.
    Each cylinder will show the production date before ex factory. When the lifespan arrived you need to disposed off.

    END QUOTE:

    Anyone know or have heard from a manufacturer that states anything different?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
  15. Paul Cann

    Paul Cann Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Watford
    I doubt very much the health and safety rules in china are the same as over here or relevant
     
  16. splat

    splat Donator

    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    hucknall, nott's
    FYI, the question of the point of CF Air cylinders. As a retired fireman with almost 40 years experience of wearing Breathing Apparatus I can assure you all that the difference in weight of steel V cf cylinders is a major game changer. the assorted Fire services all pushed for lighter weight cylinders for decades. back packing a modern BA is a joy when compared with the old steel ones (that's without lugging spare cylinders for tools or BA use). the disadvantages of poor thermal resistance and susceptibility to moisture are worth the weight reduction and improved firefighter performance.
     
  17. jantar

    jantar Donator

    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Whetstone, Leicesterhire
    Paul Cann - That is correct but the quotation read;
    'Our cylinder is comply with your national standard'
    Your 'local standard' referring to the UK because I made that clear in the original request to them for further information for their use in the UK. That then logically means that they do comply with the UK standards and are supplied to many of the UK Fire Brigades, via import distributors as 'Breather Packs'. That information was gleaned from the local headquarters where one kind gent looked at the manufacturers mark on the cylinders currently in use.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
  18. RichieRich

    RichieRich Ping!

    Messages:
    4,929
    Likes Received:
    2,736
    Location:
    County Durham
    As long as they have a surface type valve and not a Scuba one, then yes, they are subject to the same 5 year test cycle. I bought a carbon fibre tank earlier this year, and the label on it says it's end of life is 04/2034, and was manufactured in April this year. 20 Year lifespan, with 3 test cycles.

    IMO, the weight saving alone is enough to warrant buying one. My 9ltr carbon tank weighs as much as the 3ltr steel one i had. Makes a huge difference when you've got to cart it all around.
     
  19. splat

    splat Donator

    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    hucknall, nott's
    You could easily find different life durations on same type CF air cylinders, because when they first came into operational use no one was sure how durable the cylinders were. hence they had short life spans....as experience with them as been gained over years of use the manufacturers are realising they last longer than was expected and therefore can have longer declared life spans. HTH
     
  20. Paul Cann

    Paul Cann Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Watford
    I don't disbelieve anything you have said chap, but I do have difficulty believing a word anyone from china says when they are trying to sell you something
    "the lifespan is 15 years for the brand new cylinder, if you start to use it, and could be using for 3 years.our cylinder is comply with your national standard and it be tested one day before delivery"

    WTF does that mean? A company that claims to make "the greatest volume of sales of these cylinders to end users worldwide" should be able to employ somebody with a decent grasp of English. What we need to know is the UK Definition of "your national standard" which isn't contained in the Email, I have had a lot of dealings with Chinese imports in my life and they will say absolutley anything to get your money, they know that once your 100 cylinders have been paid for and shipped out you aren't going to shell out for return postage if they aren't what you expect or get a refund. I was constantly astonished by how many people would buy an American Nitrous oxide cylinder from a company like NOS and believe that is was legal to use in the uk and refill, it wasn't stamped with the correct markings to meet uk specs as it was stamped for USA specs and made for that market.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice