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Question Can It Be Done At Home!

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Elk hunter, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    I've just read Gunner66 thread on the hunting section and has me wondering this!

    All HW owners tell you how good German engineering yet gunner sent his to be tuned and it took ten weeks. As far as im awear a tune is, seals, spring, polished internals, setting the trigger. Now I know my limits and have a work shop at home but in no gun smith. But when it comes to spring guns they are simplisicty in its perfect form.

    So my question is can you home tune a springer at home to a professional standard. Or an I being ignorant on this subject.

    Andrew
     
  2. Tripleteer

    Tripleteer Donator

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    +1 for Andrew, simplicity indeed. Atb Paul.
     
  3. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    I think you can tune at home but you have got to have the knowledge of what your doing otherwise you can easily make it worse .
     
  4. Steve K

    Steve K Posting Addict

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    If you have the knowledge and necessary equipment, of course it can be done at home
     
  5. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    Many of the "home kits" are prohibitively expensive, include unnecessary parts and also have long lead times.
    I'm all for a bit of diy though and love a good tinker!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  6. jantar

    jantar Donator

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    I was a bit hesitant at first but then someone told about the welshwilly kits and so I asked him what it entailed. He gave me advice and I bought his kit, also his trigger upgrade, for my SMK XS19-18DL and I had it completed inside a day without any obstacles that caused me problems.
    DIY, Why not ..... it is certainly possible and as easy as it could be with the instructions that are provided. Basic tools are all that is needed and no specialist ones at all other then a 24" sash cramp to compress the spring.
    My advice.....Go for it :up: and be proud of your accomplishment.......... Do get it chronoed afterwards though cos mine went up to 14.75lbs and I had to remove some of the spacers. Now its settled in at 11.60lbs and has fired over a thousand shots.
    Here is the link if you are interested.
    http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=smk-xs1819-service-kits
    Good luck.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  7. Springrrr

    Springrrr Active Member

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    Get on YouTube and type in the model of the HW in question and "take down" on the same line. For example, I chose an HW97 and this is what I got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSNSn4fP0Q

    Read a bit about what is done during a tune and if you have any mechanical what so ever, you can do it.

    I have tuned a number of guns off YouTube videos.
     
  8. 177

    177 Donator

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    I think we need to separate tuning from servicing.

    Most of us don't really tune a gun although we call it tuning.

    Opinions vary on this, but mine is that tuning involves making components to fit the individual gun and modifying parts of the gun in tandem with the internals to get the best/most efficient balance of performance possible.

    More or less anyway :rolleyes:

    When you buy a tuning kit and install it you haven't tuned anything, and the bits have been made in a generic fashion to (hopefully) fit any example of your model gun.

    In and of itself these kits offer a massive step up from a factory standard gun but they aren't made to measure so much as made to fit.

    Proper tuning involves making a spring guide to fit an individual spring, for example, or drilling out the transfer port then sleeving it down to the appropriate size, which will depend on lots of internal factors, and making buttons or a piston skirt/bearing to fit the bore of an individual gun which is unlikely to fit another same-model example quite as well due to tolerance variation.

    You can do a great home service that can rival any of the currently available tuning kits if you know how.

    But installing a 'tuning kit' involves precisely no tuning, and relies on someone else having done the work to figure out a formula of X+Y= fits-this-model-gun or A+B= fits-that-mdoel-gun

    The short answer is that you can achieve great results at home without a well equipped workshop, or you can destroy a gun by trying to do something you don't fully understand.

    A proper tune is light years past what can easily be achieved at home by most people, so it comes down to what you want, how deep your pockets are and whether you have sufficient understanding of the task in hand to take it on without introducing problems.

    I can't begin to tell you how many guns I've had in over the years where I get a bag of bits that someone stripped down and lost their way (and often some components).

    Waiting lists are a bugbear of mine - I would never send a gun away for weeks on end. I would be happy to book and pay for a job slot and then send my gun in a few days ahead of the allotted time but I don't understand why any tuner would want to be responsible for a pile of guns that just sit there for 10 weeks and get worked on for a day or so.

    Answers on a postcard please...

    So, a bit of fettling at home can work wonders, but I'd take a Wonky Donky tune over a home fettled gun every day of the week and twice on Sundays...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  9. Egg

    Egg Major Poster

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    I agree with 177 - a tune involves custom parts being installed (custom top hats, spring guides and the like - usually made to measure) and some other jiggery pokery, a totally different animal to a home service which is essentially a strip, de-grease/re-grease and polishing of any obvious rough bits - a fettle really.
     
  10. jantar

    jantar Donator

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    177 gets it right on the head.....nothing left to say other than if you can afford it let a gunsmith do the work for you cos then you have a warranty to go with it......
    good luck and start saving.....;)
     
  11. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    think the general answer is do you want it better than the manufacturer , yes a tuning kit will do ,or do you want perfection .. perfection costs
     
  12. Springrrr

    Springrrr Active Member

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    Just like the most important part of a car tune up is usually the spark plugs so too, the most important part of a spring gun tune up is the spring.

    A Vortek spring kit takes care of that. It has a very tight fitting derlin spring guide and a tube the spring rides in. The spring is polished at both ends (but not to my satisfaction, I touch it up more). Then comes the fine points like polishing everything that touches or rubs and adding a top quality grease to the parts in the proper amount.

    A parachute piston seal likes a honed piston tube and that can be nicely done with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper and an "O" ring seal likes a smooth walled piston tube and that is where the 1000 -1500 grit sandpaper comes in.

    Buttoning the piston and the piston tube is a good thing in sloppy guns but many of the higher priced units are pretty good by themselves. I have been very successful with adding "O" rings and shims to various points but that is just part of having reasonable mechanical aptitude and understanding how and why an air gun works and what to do to make it work better. This information is readily available on the internet.

    In my humble opinion, a good man at home can do nearly as good as a pro tuner if he has done any mechanical work and has a reasonable supply of tools. He may not bring it in to the N'th degree but it is possible that some of us do not have the shooting skills to split the hairs, others do.

    I went to work on my RWS model 48 and can shoot it nearly as good as my TX200 and they are not even in the same class as far as accuracy goes, out of the box but I also built, from the ground up, a 45 cal. ACP 1911 that I won competitions with. It all depends on just how far you want to take it and how much research you want to put into it to get it right as well as how brave you are to give it a go.

    How did the well known tuners get their skill? Over the shoulder of another tuner or research and trial on their own? I bet in many cases, it was a little of each.
     
  13. mattw975

    mattw975 Keyboard Hero

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    A home tune up with a spring guide & top hat made to suit your spring will make the world of difference in cutting out twang & giving the recoil shall we say more direction in life (in line with the centreline of the rifle longitudinally.

    Couple that with a "sized" piston seal(*), polished spring ends, internal clean + polish & re-lube / assembly & there is not much you can't do at home with some tools & most importantly a Chronograph.

    i think there is nothing more gratifying than fettling ones own springer.

    (*) spin the piston in a pistol drill by holding it by the piston rod & size the piston seal with fine emery

    Cheers,

    Matt W :)





    p
     
  14. 177

    177 Donator

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    Mine don't.

    I've fitted quite a few Vortek kits now and the spring guide has never been particularly tight, which is a good thing IMHO

    I have one right now in my old and favourite HW95 and I've installed another 7 or 8 at least now, and none of them have had a tight spring guide. At best they were a close fit but very 'free flowing'.

    A tight spring guide is the quickest way I know of to introduce problems and power loss.
     
  15. Springrrr

    Springrrr Active Member

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    OK, I guess I should have defined "tight" a bit better. I could have said snug because as you know, when the spring compresses, it expands and even with a snug guide, the spring will loosen up around it.

    All the Vortek kits I have seen require a pretty hard pull to get the spring off the guide. That same spring becomes free flowing when compressed and is kept in line by both the guide and the outter collar around its outer diameter.

    I am not saying that I do the same job that a super experienced tuner can do but when I finished with my RWS 48 and can put up to 10 shots in an circle the size of a nickel at 35 yards by just resting my forearm on a rolled up towel, it is approaching and surpassing my own personal shooting ability and that is fine by me.

    Like Matthw975 said, it is a very gratifying experience.
     
  16. peterpan

    peterpan Engaging Member

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    after seeing lots of sand and other stuff on the spring in my 97k 22 i dicided to try a home service loads of good tips on here and other sites im no engineer but the simplisity of how to dissasemble a 97k is beautiful for a person as unskilled as me .i had to buy a new piston seal and breach seal i added a piston sleeve made from a beer can cut to correct size polished the piston and inside comp tube i added a spacer washer lubed it back up and it shoots like a dream very quite dont get me wrong i had to have about 4 or 5 goes before i got it spot on its a very delicate balance with how much grease to use on pistone and spring i would say that its essential you have some kind of suitable chronograph.so i would say yes it defo can be done at home im not saying its more accurate because it was well run in when i bought it and dead accurate the work what iv dont has just tamed it and made it more quite just a slight nudge was really pleased with myself only 7fps dif in a 10 shot string with aa df ......what a rifle they are no wonder so many people use them
     

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