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Calibre and accuracy..

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by cloverleaf, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I've often heard it said that ".177 is more accurate".

    While I use this calibre almost exclusively in preference to anything bigger, I've always assumed that this statement is the result more of the smaller calibre's flatter, more forgiving trajectory than any difference in actual group sizes.

    Recently however I've used a fair few .22 rifles - none of which seem to group as well as other guns in .177. I have little experience with .22 but thinking back, I've never shot any particularly good (rested) groups with the larger calibre.

    So.. my question, to those who use both calibres is - do you find any significant difference in group sizes between the two calibres? I wouldn't have expected any, but recent experience is telling me that this perhaps isn't the case.

    Ta - looking forward to hearing some thoughts ;)
     
  2. Alex.mc

    Alex.mc Busy Member

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    An interesting question..... which I look forward to seeing the answers to! :)

    The answers I'm sure will revolve around the fact that air is viscous, and will feel different to a Bumblebee than it does to a Vulture. Insects are described as "swimming" when they fly rather than what what we perceive.

    The two calibres will react with the air they travel through in different ways, bring into the equation the reletive merits or not of the traditional diablo shape of a pellet, and the velocities they travel at,and you are probably in the right area for an answer?

    Come on experts!.......... I'm holding my breath all bated and so on.... and I'm going a bit red already!
     
  3. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    A .22 group is made of bigger holes, maybe that's it?

    I probably measure groups wrong, when I say a 20mm group I mean inside a 20mm circle, I would do a lot better if I measured from the center point of each pellet hole...
     
  4. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    Using my .22 ultra along side the same in .177 using the same pellet, only thing noticed was the size of the group in relation to the pellet.

    With the addition of a moderate side wind, .22 kept the tighter group.
     
  5. Steve K

    Steve K Posting Addict

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    I shoot with .177, .20 and .22 and in my experience they are all as accurate as each other, just different trajectory.

    Accuracy issues are usually down to me and not the guns or calibres ;)
     
  6. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Cheers guys - keep the opinions coming :)

    Yup - for consistency / convention you should be measuring centre-centre - measure the OD of the group and subtract the pellet's calibre and there's your c-c figure ;)
     
  7. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    The most accurate airgun I've owned/used was my .22 FX Typhoon. It had the smooth twist barrel and used to stack pellet on pellet at the range. It really was a phenomenon, and it shocked all who tried it! I sold it when I heard how rubbish smooth-twist barrels are. What a dumbass!:mad: (I've seen it back up for sale on here, but couldn't get an answer from the current owner)
    The second most accurate was my .22 Parker Hale Dragon Sporter. That probably had the twistiest barrel in the world, but could make single hole groups at 60 yards with ease.

    Just for balance, I've also had .22 Stealths x 2, and a .22 Career 707 which couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo!
     
  8. Ballisticboy

    Ballisticboy Busy Member

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    It all depends on what you assume as to which is best in theory in terms of dispersion. If we consider a fixed yawing rate the same for each calibre then .177 is ballistically better than the .22. But, if we assume a slightly offset CG, say 4 thou in each then the .22 is ballistically better than the .177. However, you could argue that the assumption of the same offset in each calibre is biased against the .177 as it is smaller and the offset is a larger proportion of its diameter. If we assume the same percentage offset for the CG, say 2% for each calibre then the .177 is better. However, the differences are insiginificant compared to the differences caused by the different fit between pellets and barrels so the dispersion (group size) will be more dependent on pellet/barrel fit than on calibre.
    As to which is most accurate as opposed to which gives the smallest group (they are not the same thing) then that will be dependent on a much larger number of factors in the complete pellet/gun/shooter system, but the flatter trajectory of the .177 would make it easier to be more accurate.
     
  9. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    Good God, I've just tightened my groups to 14.5mm, & I didn't even open a tin of pellets!
     
  10. terry1001

    terry1001 Major Poster

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    Group sizes are normally measured centre to centre and therefore you can compare different calibres.
     
  11. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    I don't think the rabbit cares, so I don't worry!
     
  12. lone wolf

    lone wolf Pro Poster

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    A group is measured from the edge of the two furthest points if impact therefore giving you a group size,your mean point of impact is the center of the group size.

    Gaz
     
  13. FPoole

    FPoole Posting Addict

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    I saw a field target with a .178 reducer in the KZ. Once in a while at close range a .177 would take it down, but a .22 never did. Therefore .177 must be more accurate.
     
  14. Dunkman

    Dunkman Posting Addict

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    There could be an argument that in a spring gun a .177 has the potential to be more accurate by virtue of the simple fact it will generally be 200 FPS quicker down the barrel than a .22 and therefore spends less time under the influence of the shooter as the point of trigger pull to muzzle exit would be less if we take away the variable of the difference in lock times. A super quick lock time, short barrelled .177 would in theory be very accurate.
     
  15. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Ummmmm.....
     
  16. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    3 most accurate (best groups) rifles that I've had and tested specifically. Are

    .177 regged s200
    .177 aa s510
    .22 sfs tuned webley longbow

    Other rifles I've used but not owned that were very good producing sub 1/2" 10+shot group at 50odd yards.

    .177 Hw100
    .22 FAC s200

    My thoughts:

    .177 is less effected by wind - so groups should be the same or narrower horizontally.

    If both a .177 rifle and a .22 have the same consistency. The .177 will produce a smaller group as the difference in velocity results in less pellet drop and therefore a smaller group vertically.

    Also .177 pellets are lighter therefore they have less margin for error in weight consistency.

    Just my thoughts, but overall, I just shoot the range the rifle will group to and enjoy, .22 has a lot of benefits in the field
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  17. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    That's how everyone gets amazing groups, I just think they are bs-ing Cus I can't do it, but I measure edge to edge :D
     
  18. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    Maybe depends whose shooting:)
     
  19. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Or the fact that a .22 pellet won't fit very well through a hole .178" in diameter.
     
  20. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    Is that a joke? :?
     

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