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BKL mounts. I'm converted.

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by milek, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Last sunday during a HFT comp I twice placed a shot at 4 O'clock just outside of the 15mm at around 10 yards (no wind). Yet at 40 yards I was dead centre. Going back on the zeroing range I tested it ad nauseum to prove that somehow I had what I believe was crossover. Following lots of reviews I decided today to try some BKL mounts. No matter the range the shots stayed down the middle every time. I had dismissed crossover as a minimal issue until now and the confidence these results have given me far outweigh the cost of the mounts. Anyone at Worcester on Sunday needs some Sportsmatch mounts give me a shout.
     
  2. PAUL1986

    PAUL1986 Big Poster

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    surely the best thing to do is to check the mounts on the rifle before fitting the scope.
    I can honestly say that I have never had such a problem with a set of mounts.
    until I do, I will be sticking with what works.
    a good set of sportsmatch or hawke mounts with no cross over would surely produce the same results. wouldn't they?
     
  3. Bolor

    Bolor Banned BANNED

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    Often in life ive found theres quality and then theres quality. They may be not much better than say sportsmatch or even hawke but they are better. I saw hounded is selling a bkl mount on here and im surprised its still lingering. They seem to make alll the obscure sizes as well.
    my saying is you pays your money and takes your choice.
     
  4. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Every check of the SM or Hawke mounts produces exactly the same result. Their design means that they will not sit central to the bore; they are offset to a very small degree. Zeroing out at 30-40 yards makes no difference to the impact but at 8yrds plus in a HFT comp it matters a great deal. This is down to offset which causes crossover, eliminating this gives me another degree of confidence. It was only a few weeks ago I was saying that all mounts are very much alike; I was wrong to suggest such.
     
  5. imorik

    imorik Busy Member

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    Had the same problem with sportsmatch mounts......all my mounts are now BKL ;)
     
  6. Ianhw77k

    Ianhw77k Big Poster

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    I never spotted the BKL mounts in the sales section, think I'll try to persuade the missus to let me spend some money:D
     
  7. Jackal

    Jackal Posting Addict

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    It's not your mounts...i'll be back some time with the maths from your first post, unless you're better at 'trig' than me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  8. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    I have yet to be convinced crossover actually exists. If your scope is 2mm out at the breech then on a 30 yard zero it'll be 2mm out at the muzzle and also 2mm out at 60 yds. Not a scenario any but the very best could detect. Every instance I've seen has been parallax error or the crosshairs moving due to changing the AO or mag (shouldn't happen but it does). If someone can explain how a misaligned scope can produce more error than is in at it's mounting I'm willing to learn.
     
  9. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    You may be assuming that the 2mm is in a parallel plane to the bore which would account for 2mm offset at any distance I agree. It's when the mislignment is across the central plane/bore that multiplies the difference the further the zero.

    It is the mounts, swapping over to the BKL mounts shows a poi in the exact plane of the bore at any distance; now given only the mounts have changed there is very little to account it to.
     
  10. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    In 99% of cases where folk talk of crossover it's always left / right, never up / down. Why one plane only? Scopes are designed to be misaligned to a degree. On many airguns you have to strongly point the erector tube down to intersect the loopy trajectory of the pellet. FT shooters constantly adjust their erectors (oo-er!:eek:). There is massive evidence to show this causes no problems at all. Why would moving it left / right cause any issues that up / down doesn't?

    I obviously can't prove a negative in that I can not prove crossover does not exist.
     
  11. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Vertical alignment presents no problem as it's still in line with the bore. You still get two points at which the pellet intersects the line of sight. Horizontal misalignment means a single point only. If the starting point (line of sight) is out at the gun then the result will be much greater at the zero end. There's got to be someone better at explaining it than I am.
     
  12. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    This is how I picture it if it makes any sense:-
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    The scope may be misaligned but the erector tube will be pointing directly at your zero. At worst it may a couple of mm out. The worst that should happen is that the image quality suffers due to not using the central part of the lens.

    Next point is how do you know the barrel is 100% in line with the breech rails? The very slightest deviation immeasurable by eye would give exactly the same issues as having the scope misaligned yet doesn't. There is no difference between scope misaligned to barrel or barrel misaligned to scope. I doubt many barrels are perfectly aligned with the breech. I recently disassembled my S400. The barrel looked perfectly aligned both before and after yet the poi was 6" over to the right on re-assembly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  14. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    You don't know for sure and I think you are right, few are 100% so doing anything possible to reduce that difference is a good idea. Having mounts that close up in line with the centre of the rail is a good start. It took me a few hours zeroing to eliminate the errors that have plagued me for some time. On my rifle, with these mounts I have shown that something was out of alignment and the only thing I changed was mounts.
     
  15. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    I'll certainly agree that mounts that work in a central manner such as BKLs are better than the side mounting type that are more common. There is certainly no advantage in deliberately putting things out.
     
  16. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Very interesting subject this, I might pop down to the club tomorrow and chop & change my sights mounts to try and understand it a bit better. Went to Worcester Rifles this-morning but snowed off.
     
  17. Akita177

    Akita177 The Absolute State of Britian podcast

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    recently i tried some hawke and accushot 2 piece mounts, put one on the rail with the screws on the left and the other with the screws on the right butted upto each other.
    And the ones with the screws on left where off centre a fair bit for both the Hawke and Accushot.
     
  18. PAUL1986

    PAUL1986 Big Poster

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    I checked my sportsmatch mounts before mounting the scope on my new 97K and they line up perfectly (with the mounting screws on the left)
    as I said, I have never had a problem with scope mounts not lining up. unless I am looking for the wrong thing.
     
  19. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Same here Paul, they look absolutely in line with each other but I still believe the mount is not central to the plane of the bore. Swap one mount around so the screws are on the opposite side and try again. I bet they don't line up.
     
  20. PAUL1986

    PAUL1986 Big Poster

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    that way they don't no. but who in their right mind would mount a scope with the mount screws on different sides of the rifle.
    even if you are using mounts such as the BKL mounts that can be fixed with the screws on different sides, why would you do it anyway?
    it doesn't exactly look good does it?
     

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