1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Barrel Breech Finish - Advice Please - Is This Acceptable / Normal?

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Fromthedarkside, May 18, 2021.

  1. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Hi Guys,

    Before I go into battle with a Gun Shop I would like some advice from any people who know what the finish of an airgun (pistol) barrel breech should look like, specifically, should it look like the barrel breech in the photos I have uploaded?

    Let me give you some background on why I ask this question -

    As you may have guessed from the question I am new to airgun shooting (although I have shot a Rimfire rifle in the distant past). I have just bought an air pistol for informal 10 metre shooting but from the very first pellet shot I have had issues with it, or specifically when the .177 flat head Geco pellets that I bought with it are loaded.

    In a nutshell, almost every Geco pellet fails to leave the barrel - but I have had no issues using Gamo Pistol Cup flat head .177 pellets which seem to go through fine.

    I suspect a pellet seating issue with the Gecos as they have a lipped skirt and if you look at the gun barrel breech in the photo the finish of the barrel is so rough, burred, and uneven that it is either catching the burs or expanding into the deep leade before the rifling and jamming there (there is no stepped transition at all from the end of the breech to the rifling).

    The Gamo Cup pellets have a smooth skirt.

    Yes, I did take the gun back to the gun shop for advice. They put some unknown brand of pellet through the barrel (even though I said the issue was with Gecos only) and as the gun fired they said there is nothing wrong with the gun - perhaps I should ensure it is cocked properly in future (a very condesending comment to a new or old shooter alike).

    I went home and tried again with a Geco - yes you guessed it, a missfire. Pellet not moved from breech.

    I even tried another batch of Geco pellets, just in case.

    After clearing the stuck Geco (and after a few further missfires with Gecos) I asked to reject the gun under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - using the "Not of Satisfactory Quality" part (it was just 2 days old and had been returned once already).

    I even sent the gun shop the photos of the barrel finnish which I blamed for the gun failing to shoot Gecos.

    However - The gun shop again said that there was nothing wrong with the gun - they had even shot it "and had a video to prove it worked". They then tried to fob me off saying I had no right of return - unless THEY decided the gun was faulty.

    Either I have bought the gun from a shop who has never heard of Consumer Rights or this is usual in the trade (is this lack of customer service normal in the airgun industry?).

    I am getting ready for a fight on this with the gun shop, but before I go into battle I thought it wise to check if this sort of missfire was common and the finish of the barrel normal / accepable - otherwise I could make a fool out of myself.

    Oh, the gun make and model - its a Gamo PR45 .177 SSP.

    Many thanks in advance for any and all comments.
    upload_2021-5-18_20-12-55.jpeg

    upload_2021-5-18_20-13-24.jpeg

    upload_2021-5-18_20-13-48.jpeg
     
  2. Cammie1314

    Cammie1314 Doric spikkin teuchter

    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    7,117
    Location:
    Inverurie Scotland
    I had one many moons ago and to be honest the breech looked the pretty much the same. Never had any problems with ammo but then I didn't fire Gecos through it. Don't fire Gecos through it is my only advice. I think I used Hobbys
     
    Byronic and Fromthedarkside like this.
  3. Dan Simpson

    Dan Simpson Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,067
    Likes Received:
    2,606
    Location:
    Dartmouth
    Oh dear, welcome to airgun world... One type of pellet doesn't shoot... Oh dear.... Maybe another hobby....
     
  4. Arrizabalaga

    Arrizabalaga Forum Poet

    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Location:
    Swindon
    I'm sorry to say that this is the sort of thing you find at the cheaper end of the market (and sometimes at the middle and upper end as well). It's not a major job to dress the breech, but it would void your warranty. Alternatively, just stick to pellets that work until the warranty expires. It's quite normal to go through half a dozen or more different types of pellets to find one that suits, even with a £2000 rifle.

    P.S. Don't be tempted to buy a Chinese manufactured air gun, they're all like that. I've just dressed the breach on P15 rifle (around £500 new), it made your breech look good.

    Edit: If you want to use the Geco's you've bought try using a plastic biro to push them a bit further into the barrel (you can buy pellet seating tools but a biro does the job the same).
     
    Fromthedarkside likes this.
  5. Late Boomer.

    Late Boomer. Engaging Member

    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    North London
    It looks OK to me... But, then I'm no expert on barrels.
    I wouldn't call a gun defective because it won't shoot any and every pellet available. There are literally thousands of different kinds and designs. That Geco pellet is rather peculiar, with that little step on the skirt. - I would just find a pellet of the type and form that shoots well in your gun, and stick with those.

    BTW. Your pictures are excellent... shows the rifling very nicely, unlike mine.
     
    Fromthedarkside likes this.
  6. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Many thanks for that advice.
    Maybe I was expecting a bit too much, especially for the price paid.

    I may just put my bad experience (especially at the gun shop) down to experience, move on, and try some different pellets in the gun.

    Glad I checked here before I returned to the gun shop and went full-on Viking with them - LOL!

    The email I sent the gun shop telling them what I thought of them now seems a bit silly - ah well :facepalm:
     
    the logun-ator and Arrizabalaga like this.
  7. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Thanks for taking a look, much appreciated.
    I found your photos to be excellent actually, and I think many other people are going find them useful reference images well into the future - so dont knock them.

    Anyway, from some of the other replies I have received it looks like I may have made a bit of a tit of myself shouting "Consumer Rights" and "I'll be back" down at the gun shop :facepalm:.

    Buy hey, I am new to airguns and big enough to admit if I have acted like a tit, so I will put this down to experience and send an email to the gun shop saying sorry for calling them out - LOL :)

    Thank again for your help.
     
    Byronic, jesim1 and Late Boomer. like this.
  8. marflow

    marflow Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Location:
    usa
    that is an easy fix and i would normally not have you fix it but that look you would on so many gun
    so how to fix, well you need a some Dremel rubber polishing points
    you don't need a power supply, just roll them between you fingers
    airgun barrel are very soft and easy to polish
    now on the pellet, if they don't work stop using them, the pistol doesn't like them, it is an air gun thing
    everyone should have these polishing points, get several sizes
    you can't get a better barrel they will all be that way, they are not bad, just not great

    just fix it, we all need tools


    mike in the states

    i did some shopping for you
    dremel rubber polishing points | eBay
     
    Blackmax, jesim1, Bash and 1 other person like this.
  9. Arrizabalaga

    Arrizabalaga Forum Poet

    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Location:
    Swindon
    For what it's worth, I use H&N Excite Econ II at £3 a tin in my pistols. I've found them as good as anything else out to 10 metres. (Had to dress the breach in one of those too, Artemis CP1 so I expected to have to do quite a lot of tinkering when I bought it)
     
    Fromthedarkside likes this.
  10. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    LOL, I did say I was new............
    Making mistakes and asking daft questions - along with perhaps expecting a bit too much is of the learning curve.
    Thanks for sharing your experience with me.
     
    Byronic likes this.
  11. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Excellent, thanks.
    As the gun was very cheap it would be worth having a go at this, as if I stuff it up I wont have lost too much.
    Thanks.
     
  12. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Thanks.
     
  13. MoggyM

    MoggyM FLM

    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Location:
    Shropshire
    If one of my apprentices did that they'd be in my office. Its irrelevant if it shoots correctly, the finish is appalling.
    Id report the RFD if, they belong to a master craftsmen/gunsmiths society and avoid them.

    Id go direct to the manufacturer also.

    I had a new Enfield motorbike. The cylinder head was made in correctly. The shop had the bike back 3 times. I had to bypass the shop and go to Enfield for a repair. Repaired then, sold it.

    Below is what id expect

    3410B0BE-2549-4765-B143-48B1F0E0D8CA.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
    Blackmax, Bunyip and Fromthedarkside like this.
  14. Late Boomer.

    Late Boomer. Engaging Member

    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    North London
    No probs... And welcome to AGF.

    This place is a goldmine of advice and help. - I've not been a member for long, myself, but have benefitted muchly already from the vast pool of knowledge at our disposal.

    Stick around.
     
    Fromthedarkside likes this.
  15. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    Moggy,

    Many thanks indeed for that image. That is what I was expecting when I looked at my breech, not the unfinished Friday afternoon plumbers pipe cut off :)

    - but from the other replies to my thread such poor finish seems to normal and acceptable.

    I am a Biol Scientist "by trade" and used to working with very high precision opto-electo equipment giving measurements in micrometres and sometimes even nanometres - so when I saw my pistols breech I could not believe, that in this day and age of precision, a gun barrel of all things could leave the factory like that.

    As for the RFD, I will never buy another item from them.

    I am very - VERY - tempted to seek enforcement of the Consumer Rights Act 2015,
    specifically Chapter 2, Section 9, Paragraph 3:

    (3)The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

    (a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied;

    (b)appearance and finish;

    (c)freedom from minor defects;

    (d)safety;

    (e)durability.

    To a Scientist used to following strict procedures and being professionally and legally bound to follow any and all relevent legislation, I was shocked by the attitude of the RFD when I attempted to excercise my right to reject under the terms of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This is a piece of Court Enforceable Legislation to which the RFD basically put 2 fingers up and said that they will determine my rights.

    It was like a red-rag to a bull I assure you.

    And until just before I started this thread, when someone said "all cheap airguns have rough barrels" I was going to fight it. I thought it wise to check here after hearing that, and from comments so far it seems that poor quality finishing of gun barrels (and poor customer service too?) is the norm.

    So, to cut a long story short, I have decided to just walk away and move on - although deep down I know I should fight this on principle. Ouch - walking away stings a bit.
     
    wiltshirejohn likes this.
  16. MoggyM

    MoggyM FLM

    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Id be tempted to send photographs to the UK distributor first, including a very brief description of RFD's comments and actions.

    Gamo aren't an unknown Chinese brand, they own BSA. The air gun media might be a second place to go if Gamo don't play ball.
     
    Byronic and Fromthedarkside like this.
  17. Fromthedarkside

    Fromthedarkside Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    North West
    You and I seem to think alike it seems.

    The distributor is BSA guns and I emailed them over the weekend, and yes I told them who the RFD is and that they wanted no further bothering by me unless I could "prove" a fault to them.

    I asked BSA to step up and take some responsibility for thier product, but I dont hold out much hope of any contact though, but I will update here if I do get a reply.
     
    Byronic likes this.
  18. rockdrill

    rockdrill Engaging Member

    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Cornwall
    So if I get this right it doesn't like the Geco pellets but shoots OK with other types?

    If that is the case I wouldn't necessarily call it a fault with the gun, rather that it doesn't like that particular brand of pellet.

    As to the quality of finish on the barrel, magnification will make anything look worse, even something that looks well finished to the naked eye.

    Given that it is a Gamo, a budget brand, that is probably par for the course.

    I would suggest that whilst the attitude of the gunshop could do with adjustment, if it fired the brands they tested it with then it likely isn't faulty.
     
    Byronic and Fromthedarkside like this.
  19. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Big Poster

    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    Location:
    wimborne
    That's quite sharp for a breech Moggy :D

    Looks like the OPs manufacturer have rammed some sort of tool in there to take the square edge off .

    I was gonna say 'cutting tool ' but thought better of it .

    So this is a Gamo ? = bsa ? = some dodgy finished barrels .....@cloverleaf had some fabulously nasty pics in his archive , and an entertainingly frank mini-rant .
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    Byronic likes this.
  20. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Big Poster

    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    Location:
    wimborne
    Op .
    That barrel finish is not good . ....but I've seen far worse .
    I Don't want to be harsh but that's probably what you're going to get at the lower end of the price range . Mind you ,the top end aren't immune from nasties either .....I'll dig a pic out ....stand by ...........( we love a barrel pic don't we ?:))

    It's odd and a bit disappointing that the gun wont fire one type of pellet , but that pellet with the step in the skirt does look quite different to most . As said in another post , maybe try some other types . certainly the econs seem fabulous value for the money.

    I think that the shop and bsa could have managed the situation with a little more empathy and explanation but , we live and learn .
     
    Byronic and Fromthedarkside like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice