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Question Ballistics

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Phil Noel, Jan 26, 2014.

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  1. Phil Noel

    Phil Noel Member

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    Ok you motley crew, And tech heads a question.?
    We all know if you can hit a live target in the right place , and at sensible distances you will kill it .
    Im talking non FAC , And I imagine calibre will make a difference to the answer.

    So we take a .22 rifle with a muzzle velocity of 610 fps = 11.9 ft.lbs So lets say at 30yds the power has dropped to 500 fps,
    well we know we are safe to kill at this range , and we know at 50 yds the power has dropped again, but we know we are safe in the knowledge providing we are able to group sub 1 inch groups. it will be a clean kill


    So my question is how many fps or energy is needed to penetrate and kill .? lets look at 100yrds so you are very good shot a super human .
    (its only a question ) So 100 yds and the velocity has dropped to lets say 275 fps. Is this enough to penetrate your quarry,? I understand there is a difference in the types of quarry fur or feather, all my figures are just made up , so no taking the Pi** .

    If anyone reads this and thinks what a plonker, I must state it was the voices that told me to do it . Philster.
     
  2. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    I think you are trying to ask a much simpler question than you actually have - how much energy does it need to perform a humane kill?

    The answer depends upon the quarry, but accepted wisdom states 3ft-lbs is the minimum required. Even this has caveats, because squirrels can carry a lot more shot than a rabbit and I had a rat the other night, brainboxed, with one side of the head taken off, yet it still lived. It had lost the power of locomotion, but was still breathing happily and the other eye was still functioning - incredible really as it had taken a .22 through the noggin at about 20 feet. I put it out of its misery as soon as I could but was astounded that a proper head shot hadn't killed it (but then think of the soldiers shot in the head with high velocity rounds and survive).
     
  3. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    I tend to think like this; if I can hit it where I want to, I can kill it. If I can't guarantee that I can hit it where I want to, I can't kill it. It's all about the shot placement - how good a shot you are, what the conditions are like when you make the shot etc etc. There is no maximum range for the rifle, per se, but there's definitely a maximum range for the shooter.
     
  4. mark.177

    mark.177 Donator

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    it is true you only need around 4 ft/lbs of energy left to make a kill with small game like rabbits and most sub 12 ft/lb rifles .177 .20 or .22 will carry this out past 80 yards... on top of that most reasonably competent shooters can group within an inch at these ranges, i can do it with a .22 rimfire. the trouble is most sub 12 ft/lb air rifles regardless of calibre cannot shoot accurately enough much past 50/60 yards because the pellet is loosing spin and stability... that and hold over with the loopy trajectories as you get further out becomes critical ie get the range wrong by a foot or so and you miss the sweet spot by half an inch... an inch.
    doesnt matter how good a shot you are if your shooting sub 12 ft/lb your probably going to miss more times than you hit at those ranges so the real limiting factor here is your ability to group more realistically within half an inch!... most would agree 40 yards max from a good shooting position... possibly a little more in calm conditions with the right kit and shooter.
     
  5. Phil Noel

    Phil Noel Member

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    well thank you all , but I really wanted a more in depth answer , I am becoming a nerd , OH NO , yes I need input as a robot once said , those dam voices again.
     
  6. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    Well, like the robot you are trying to find - the answer you get will depend on the question asked.

    You know what they say: garbage in, garbage out. You got the answer to the question you asked. We are not mind readers, but we do try! Perhaps if you framed your question a little more succinctly, you would get the answer you seek.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  7. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    In theory even though there is no chance of hitting the target.
    A .177 jsb exact still has the power to kill at 97 yards and a .22 jsb exact has the power to kill at 140 yards. ( 4ftlbs )
    Is that what you wanted to know ???

    The main thing to think about with all firearms and all prey is the lower the power the better the shot placement needs to be.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  8. Alex.mc

    Alex.mc Busy Member

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    Some very pertinent points in these posts!
    I posted recently that I had shot a rabbit at 61 yards. Daystate X2 .177 H&N FTTs. Chairgun tells me that at that range my pellet still had 6ft/lbs of energy left in it from an initial 11.7.
    Shot placement is important! I freely admit that I took two shots, the first I had misread my holdover in Chairgun on my phone, but was fortunate enough to see the pellet impact without disturbing the rabbit! I readjusted and shot again killing the rabbit.

    Frankly at that range.... for me.... the shot was sketchy! And I shouldn't have taken it. I'm fortunate in that I can set out a range to more or less any distance I like, so I have some work to do regarding longer distances! For the time being, I fell happy enough with a maximum range of 45 yards, so I won't go above that again for the time being!

    There is a video somewhere of a guy shooting at an exploding target at 200 yards. He got it in the end, but it took him a lot of shots to do it, and I believe he was using some branches of an overhanging tree as him aim points! The gun looked to be angled upwards about 15 degrees when he was shooting!
     
  9. Phil Noel

    Phil Noel Member

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    to accuspell

    cheers mate , not very friendly, there was no need be like that , I am just a guy who likes air rifles . I am not an expert , but it seems you are , and if experts are like you then you can keep your forums , if you cant be positive then don't reply .
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  10. yorkshireshoot

    yorkshireshoot Posting Addict

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    Maybe it's a question that no one really could answer . Tbh the only way you could scientifically test this would be to get a rifle with variable power ( 1ftlb to 12ftlb say ) then get samples of all quarry and shoot each one and then inspect how far pellets penetrate , then you woul need a degree of vetinary knowledge to tell if he penetration/damage would be an instant kill or sufficient to be humane . Even then there would be variables in pellets used and angles pellets hit at etc so there is probably no definitive answer to your question but a good question none the less !
     
  11. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    Jeez Phil take a chill pill. I've read through the post and don't see anything for you to take offence to.
     
  12. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    Sorry, wrong quote.....This should have been in response to the above quote.

    Having taken the time to reply to your first, poorly asked question (even you said so yourself in the intial post) the above is the response to all the help we tried to give you. Then you have the nerve to say I was unfriendly - I actually tried to rephrase the question for you. I don't see anywhere that I was unfriendly. If you consider I was, I think you need to MAN UP, grow a broader set of shoulders and a thicker skin.

    I am not an expert, I have a certain amount of experience of these things which I tried my best to share with you. However, according to you, not in sufficient depth, you actually wrote: "Well thank you all, but I really wanted a more in depth answer......" :confused:
     
  13. Phil Noel

    Phil Noel Member

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    Please do not answer any posts , from me in the future , it is obvious you are far to up your own ass to think before you type . I know what questions I ask . and I don't need some p***k like you telling me what I am supposed to write or mean . you sit on your chair of the shooting gods. but I don't believe in gods anyway . If you cant be nice , then. keep the gob shut .
     
  14. Phil Noel

    Phil Noel Member

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    Matey , I don't need someone to tell me what I mean , or what I really meant to ask , I know what I wrote and I know what I wanted to learn , but the answers he gave were insulting . sorry if you feel I need to chill, I am a very easy going fella, but the answers he gave were negative , please read again . it may just be the voices in my head ,
     
  15. Barcelona68

    Barcelona68 Banned

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    Plonker...
     
  16. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    Think you've took it the wrong way mate :confused:
     
  17. Egg

    Egg Major Poster

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    Phil, you're 17 posts in and already we've had 2 reports about your replies. I can see why.

    Wind your neck in a bit otherwise your already short membership of this forum will be forcibly shortened with a ban.

    Quick edit - closing this thread before it gets out of hand. If anyone else fancies having their advice thrown back in their face then be my guest but do it via a PM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  18. reaper6

    reaper6 Banned

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    :popkorn:......a bit early aint it
     
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