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Assisted dying???????

Discussion in 'Get it off your chest' started by jantar, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. jantar

    jantar Donator

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    :( Ok, for starters I know that this will no doubt be a very controversial subject but so important that I feel it must be raised.
    I for one, my wife for two both would like to see that assisted death can be brought within the law statute provided that some foundation requirements are met. To deny the assistance to a person facing 'life' with a serious incurable disease causing constant pain or locked in syndrome where they are literally a cabbage without the ability to perform any tasks at all surely denies them their own Human Rights? It is their life, no-one else owns it, not even the church or any religion. Opposition to a request to have their demise assisted so casing their frustration and pain to be ongoing is surely is a one that is sadistic in nature? To allow it would serve to demonstrate that we live in a compassionate society where the personal preferences or requests of a dying person are of huge importance.
    Surely if that person was able to convince a panel of Phychiatrists, Doctors/Consultants and more importantly their own next of kin that they had no desire to live in endless pain or endless frustration whereby they cannot perform any task for themselves it should be granted and brought into the statute laws.
    Strange is it not that if you are rich enough you can travel to Switzerland and leave the pain and frustration in a manner that is both calm and gentle with your family around you.
    If the Swiss can do it why cannot we, a supposedly civilised country where the dying must be made to suffer needlessly?
    Not being religous, we are of Humanitarian faith yet still attend weekly Christian discussion groups and friends meetings in a church, the most serious question is; How can any . insist that his followers die in agony when his scriptures preach that He will forgive all sins provided that He is accepted into the hearts of his followers?
    That givers the insight that it is we humans, the ones in power that decide on how we die, not .! Leading on from that it then implies that see too see themselves as Gods!
    It is time that those in power listened to the pleas and acted on it instead of brushing it to one side because it is controversial. If any of those were to find themselves, or a member of their family in the circumstances would they still insist that they die in agony? Not really a Christian or compassionate thread in that is there?
    Maybe a national referendum ought to be put into place to resolve the problem once and for all?
     
  2. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    You don't have a choice about being born so, it should be your right to leave this earth as and when you want too!!
     
  3. stevemandm

    stevemandm Honorary Member

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    in a distant galaxy, far far away ....... actually
    its a v emotive subject, and a well written and thought provoking post. i for one agree with you, and i wonder if the laws would be reviewed or altered if it were the lawmakers, or a high ranking royal, that needed assistance ....
    there should only be one person in charge of your life, and thats you !
     
  4. Kenbarcon

    Kenbarcon Donator

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    Try telling my wife that!
     
  5. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    I watched The BBC documentary about the death of Peter Smedley at Dignitas in Switzerland.

    I was left feeling that his death was premature, and needless at that point in time, but if he wanted his life to end with a modicum of dignity, going to Switzerland and Dignitas had to be done then while he was still in a fit enough condition to travel. Mr Smedley suffered with motor neurone desease, which in the end leads to a terrible death, but read this and see how you feel afterwards.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...nitas-assisted-suicide-was-filmed-by-BBC.html

    If the law in the UK was different, Peter Smedley would have had more time with his family, would have had more life. The law as it stands in the UK effectively condemned him to an earlier death that he needed to have.

    Myself, I come down on the side of allowing assisted suicide, but I would need there to be very sound safeguards to protect the weak and the vulnerable. I also don't think we should be asking Doctors to shoulder any responsibilities for assisted suicide, other than to declare that a person is of sound mind and is fully cognisant of the decision they are making. Doctors take an oath that they will do no harm, and I can see from a doctors point of view that assisting somebody to kill themselves would be doing them harm. I think we have to find another way forward.

    As you can see from what I have written, I don't have any answers, but I hope that someone will and sometime soon!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  6. Andy-K2

    Andy-K2 Posting Addict

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    Firstly "Cabbage" is not a nice term and should not be used in any form other than a Sunday dinner. If they are in a "Locked In" state, how can anyone describe their will to "Live or Die"... I be dammed if I would let my wife make that decision for me.

    Ok, I am all for assisted suicide but only if the assurances were in place like a living will for instance, I hopefully would think that if I were to have to live with an incurable illness that left me incapable and unable to request verbally, that my family would follow my instructions and wishes of a living will.
     
  7. themadspread

    themadspread Donator

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    excuse the spelling my old man died of altzimers IN THE END HE HAD NO CONTROL OF HIS BODILY FUNCTIONS did not know who he was who his kids were and was a CABBAGE i hated seeing him like it and i know he would not wanted to live the last 2 yrs of his life like that he would have prefered to have been put down like you would a sick animal the famly should be able to decide when that person has lost his marbles my 3 brothers all agreed that.if it ever happens to me i hope to . someone shoots me or something similar
     
  8. Ganton Gunner

    Ganton Gunner Super Duper Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    well I think it is a messed up system and if you want to go it should be your own choice
     
  9. igual88

    igual88 Donator

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    I myself will one day face a decision like this as unless there is some miracle way of curing chronic Neuropathy I will degenerate to a point where I will need care and conventional painkillers will just put me in a zombie like state ( already on equivalent meds as end stage cancer patient),
    As long as I can go on I will and I hope that is for a long time, but when it becomes to much and I have the ability to do something about it I would like the option of choosing how and more crucially when I go.
    I agree that there needs to be stringent safeguard's in place.
    Also when it comes to people that are in a coma/vegative state/locked in syndrome there was a study done recently that showed using MRI they could communicate http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/HeadTrauma/40947

    Even though I live in severe pain every day pain scale 1 - 10 mine is often around 6-8 all time, I strive to try and achieve things, often these might be small things compared to a fit person but as long as I can contribute in someway to my family and the ones I love then they are the most important tether in my world.
    On the flip side with dementia patients it would be very hard to assertion the persons wants and wishes both mentally and also religiously, particially if they have no family. This is where I worry anything in place could so easily be abused.
    All in all it is an extremely emotive subject, with the right safeguards in place it could make a huge difference to many people.
    But it will also ignite and highlight many social problems which need sorting as well such as the state of the care system etc.

    I know my reply may offend some however unless you have lived with something or experienced it through a close family member essentially then it is difficult to truely understand what some peoples lives can be like.
    I class myself as lucky to be alive from my accident, parents were told I had less than 1% chance of survival and maybe this does give me a twisted or unique view on things I don't know ....
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  10. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    A brave and sensitive post, more power to you. You haven't offended me in any way whatsoever. I wish you everything good you can have. May whichever deity you believe in bless you and keep you.


    ATB, Ray.
     
  11. Andy-K2

    Andy-K2 Posting Addict

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    No offence can be taken from someone who knows how important decisions like this are. Its easy for someone not in this position to give an opinion whether its informed or just an opinion. I would also like to second Rays comment wishing you all things good.
    Best wishes
    Andy
     
  12. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Your post is inspiring, and hopefully new medications will be available throughout your lifetime to make things easier for you, chronic severe pain must just be awful.

    I think you've created a tangent somewhat, your neuropathy isn't the same as a 'locked in' syndrome, or someone with a clinically morbid illness, with severe pain ie end stage or patients on the Liverpool pathway where medicine will only prolong life by hours.

    The thought that you would be in so much intractable pain, but still be viable of life if it weren't present, and would consider euthanasia only puts a spot light on how pain can be so all consuming.

    Good luck to you Sir, and I hope you get the joys of the odd pain free day fella.
     
  13. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    and "whome" is reliable to help you if and when you want to die ? that's the greatest question ... your wife ? they would benefit from your death ... doctor?? hmmm there not excatly clear either we had the mr shipman case in Manchester . if legalised there could be many shipmans

    the list goes on and on
     
  14. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    If it were legalised there wouldn't be doctors randomly killing people, the legalisation would make things clearer and more controlled I guess, the decision wouldn't be with a singular dr shipman, but a consensus from all parties, including the patient.

    Where it gets sticky is children in so much misery, and no viable future......
     
  15. igual88

    igual88 Donator

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    And that is the million dollar question, which is why there needs to be a proper debate excluding religious views, lobbyists for " care" providers etc.
    Needs to be a level headed debate involving the medical community the judiciary the social care sector and people whome this legislation would effect.
    Media sensatialism does not help anyone but being such as subject that it is will naturally draw many opinions from all sides.
     
  16. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    above all it needs "common sense " but you know what they say .....its not common ..... everyone thinks there qualified these days :D they give degrees out to people straight out of an xmas hamper ....

    it will never happen in this country ... the most you would get away with is your care party taking you near somewhere and doing the final deed yourself ..but saying that the care party would be held responsible ....through lack of due care ....
     
  17. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    a concesus from whome ? whome will be the person that does the drastic deed?? wont happen and shouldn't happen . what do they say ? the old people population is increasing due to medical science improving all the time ... people will live longer ,there will be more people in the silver surfing club than at school :D

    but the human bodys it design limit is aged 85 give or take depending on you ..

    plus there is always the natural greedy person who makes money of misery and will profit of people in a position like this one way or the other ....... theres no such thing as controlled .....
    I mean not so long ago there was a state CONTROLLED . prison death but he did not die to plan did he ? I am sure there was a lot of medical people in that CONTROLLED environment :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  18. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    I don't understand a lot of your post, but your first sentence, the consensus is what a consensus is....the patient has made a choice that a painless death, at a time of their choice is what they want, along with consensus and concurrence from trusted friends and family, consensus from the patients doctor, with a concurrence from a medical peer, knowing that to staying alive will cause more distress than having a dignified death.

    Why shouldn't that be allowed?

    Similes from euthanasia to execution is crass at best.
     
  19. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 bell target champion

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    the lack of understanding is due to the post having common sense :D

    what kills them ? lethal injection ?
    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/some-examples-post-furman-botched-executions this is what happens when you medal with what you have no idea with , be it assisted death ,execution in a way ,lethal injections ect ect . theres nothing humane about it .
     
  20. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Why are you comparing executions to a humane and dignified death, this debate isn't about methods, but the sentiment and the human right to die a pain free, dignified death....At your own choice when enough is enough, and your family agrees with you and the doctors concur that it would be more stressful and painful to stay alive?

    I can guarantee you that there are humane ways of assisting death, the question WVM where is the humanity of keeping someone in so much pain and torture alive with just the right amount of pain relief and waiting for them to die, for hours of unconscious grunting, twitching and tears from the loved ones until the inevitable happens?

    I'll not bite to the first offensive remark, we have different points of reference, demonstrated on this forum.
     

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