1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Anti Tamper Laws?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Tatts, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. Tatts

    Tatts Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Is it legal to sell my HW100 to a dealer with the anti tamper removed?

    I went to trade it in yesterday for a mk4 is but they told me it was low on power so they would have to give me £200 less to cover repair costs.... No problem I said, there is no anti tamper fitted so I/you can fix that very quickly. The reply I got 'sorry but we can't sell them without the anti tamper fitted' they said take it back with the AT refitted but I no longer have it and I don't fancy another wasted 300 mile round trip :rolleyes:
    Does this also mean they can't sell old pcp's made before AT?
     
  2. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

    Messages:
    7,947
    Likes Received:
    11,844
    Location:
    Pedwell
    Anti tamper is not a legal requirement, there is no legal reason for it and no laws or regulations enforcing it. It was an entirely voluntary move by the manufacturers. The gunshop is lying to you, go elsewhere.
     
  3. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Tinbucktoo
    More likely just ignorant of the law?
     
  4. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

    Messages:
    7,947
    Likes Received:
    11,844
    Location:
    Pedwell
    More likely trying to rip off another customer.
    A/T is a complete farce that just makes it more difficult to keep your PCP legal, go back to the shop Tatts and ask why they are selling springers without A/T and would they be happy to sell pre A/T PCPs?

    This whole fiasco could be got rid of if everyone refused to buy new guns with A/T in place.
    Regards
    Tim
     
  5. Chinnymonster81

    Chinnymonster81 Busy Member

    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Essex
    Utter rubbish, they just wanted to screw you on the price. Also were concerned it may have been butchered internally after you told them the at was removed, happy to screw you on the price but worried they might get screwed in return. Buy elsewhere global market and all that.
     
  6. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Totally agree with the above posts.. a perfect example of how misinformation about / misunderstanding of the legalities of AT threatens to gradually afford it some kind of false legitimacy in the minds of shooters (when in reality it deserves absolutely none).

    The bottom line is that it has absolutely no basis in law and only serves to further erode the rights of the shooter and their ability to protect themselves by ensuring their rifle remains legal.


    So the shop's either trying to intentionally screw the OP or they just don't know what they're talking about. Either way, hardly an attitude that encourages you to give them your money... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Tatts

    Tatts Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Thanks guys, just what I wanted to know and glad I walked :up:

    My gun crept over the limit after degreasing it and this is why I installed it, faster and easier than HC. The problem is, there are no daystate dealers near me which is why I travelled to what I thought was the largest most reputable shop....

    Forgot to mention, I was told if I put the AT back in they would take it in trade and give me top money as it's boxed and mint.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  8. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Perhaps flog the 100 privately and order a Daystate from someone else to be delivered to a local shop..? You'll save more selling the HW privately than you'll lose in shipping and handling fees on the Daystate.

    Alternatively, just keep the HW100 in preference to the Daystate - you know it makes sense ;)
     
  9. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

    Messages:
    10,150
    Likes Received:
    4,687
    Location:
    lincoln
    Before everyone hangs the RFD, the problem for the RFD is that they see a lot of pcp's that have been worked on internally to run well over the limit.

    When someone wants to sell one they just back off a screw, they are now under the limit then but inconsistent, and could potentially land the RFD in hot water.

    When someone they don't know brings in a pcp that is well under power and has no anti tamper fitted alarm bells will ring, they will think has this gun been roughly turned down from a high power.
    If you were a regular customer he may have been more inclined to check out the gun.

    As said sell it privately. Or speak to your regular RFD.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  10. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    A valid point to a point IMO.. however to counter this argument, anyone with a decent working knowledge of airguns should be able to see if a PCP has been modified and any inconsistency should show up on a chrono string.

    Indeed, I'd actually go the other way - HW100s are well known for being hot from the factory, while the AA S400 series lose energy fairly rapidly over time thanks to their crappy exhaust valves. In both cases the presence of AT will only add cost and hassle for the RFD in their efforts to get the gun into a legal and saleable condition.

    Take an OTT HW100 for example - if it has AT it will need a new shuttle assy at the very least; plus the time, tools and skill required to strip the gun, fit the new AT shuttle, set the gun up and pull off the shear bolt - giving one opportunity to get it right. If it's already had the AT removed however, 10 mins with a chrono and allen key will have the issue sorted.

    I still reckon the RFD was on the blag or doesn't know what they're talking about..
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  11. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Tinbucktoo
    Roll eyes all yer want mister, I was just trying to put a less aggressive point of view, not everyone who gets things wrong is doing it on purpose or trying to rip somebody off. Being ignorant of the law is never an excuse, but in this case it could be a reason. It seems to me that on these forums, there are far too many that want to go for the throat, instead of just giving things a bit more thought sometimes.

    A phrase you seem to be fond of is "anybody who knows anything about air guns" blah-blah, you then proceed to expound on your point of view as though anybody that doesn't agree with you is a total ass. Well I reckon that there are a lot of people on these forums that don't know a lot about air guns, (me included), but that doesn't make our opinions invalid, and it doesn't make us asses either. No you didn't say we were, but sometimes the way you post things gives me the impression that that's what you think.

    Now I have only been on this forum for five minutes it's true, but in that short time I have come across some very nice people and many of the members have been very helpful to me, it's a shame that so far you haven't been one of them, because I dare say you have a lot of useful knowledge you could impart, and I for one would be keen to listen, but I do think you ought to tone down the way you reply to people sometimes.
     
  12. Tatts

    Tatts Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Can't be bothered with the hassle selling privately but I am tempted to just buy one and try them side by side, I nearly bought one while I was there but to offer £200 for a boxed 6 month old hw100 is insulting. To then tell me they can't buy it with no AT tells me they are not clued up which is what I wanted to confirm.

    I understand were you are coming from but we are talking about a large national RFD here, they took it through the back and chrono'd a few mags through it so a problem would show up. If this was the case why did they tell me to go back with the AT refitted and I can have £500 trade in ......
     
  13. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I think you've perhaps misinterpreted the intended point of my post(s) :)

    In response to your earlier post (if it wasn't clear from my original reply); I totally agree with your suggestion that the gunsmith could well be ignorant of the law. However as you say this is no excuse and in my opinion the end result is the same - I'd have no confidence in buying from someone who doesn't have any knowledge about the products they're dealing with, just as I wouldn't want to deal with someone I know is actively trying to screw me over. It's their business, and the least they could do is seek to understand it properly.

    The "rolleyes" was not directed at your post at all, but at the situation whereby the gunsmith is either trying to pull a fast one or doesn't know what they're doing - neither being ideal situations IMO - hence the use of the smiley ;)

    I can't say as I've noticed my own excessive use of the phrase "anyone who knows anything about airguns...", however again in this instance I think you've misinterpreted its intended application - the phrase was used in relation to the gunsmith in question - again someone who really should have some knowledge of the products they're dealing with.

    Unless someone's being a complete knobhead on the forum (which thankfully doesn't happen very often) it's never my intention to belittle anyone on here - we're all here to learn and discuss things of mutual interest and I appreciate the fact that the membership encompasses a wide range of knowledge and experience.

    Anyway, I hope you find this explanation satisfactory and I think we should now return this thread to it's rightful owner. Can we be friends now? :p;)
     
  14. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I think you've perhaps misinterpreted the intended point of my post(s) :)

    In response to your earlier post (if it wasn't clear from my original reply); I totally agree with your suggestion that the gunsmith could well be ignorant of the law. However as you say this is no excuse and in my opinion the end result is the same - I'd have no confidence in buying from someone who doesn't have any knowledge about the products they're dealing with, just as I wouldn't want to deal with someone I know is actively trying to screw me over. It's their business, and the least they could do is seek to understand it properly.

    The "rolleyes" was not directed at your post at all, but at the situation whereby the gunsmith is either trying to pull a fast one or doesn't know what they're doing - neither being ideal situations IMO - hence the use of the smiley ;)

    I can't say as I've noticed my own excessive use of the phrase "anyone who knows anything about airguns...", however again in this instance I think you've misinterpreted its intended application - the phrase was used in relation to the gunsmith in question - again someone who really should have some knowledge of the products they're dealing with.

    Unless someone's being a complete knobhead on the forum (which thankfully doesn't happen very often) it's never my intention to belittle anyone on here - we're all here to learn and discuss things of mutual interest and I appreciate the fact that the membership encompasses a wide range of knowledge and experience.

    Anyway, I hope you find this explanation satisfactory and I think we should now return this thread to it's rightful owner. Can we be friends now? :p;)


    Sounds like a plan if your finances can stand it :)

    I'd agree that £200 is an insult - £350-400 would be more apprpriate from a shop IMO. Regardless of their motiviation / reasons, it sounds like that particular shop is best avoided..
     
  15. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Tinbucktoo
    Oh I reckon:)
     
  16. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
  17. Chinnymonster81

    Chinnymonster81 Busy Member

    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Essex
    And I was just going to chant fight fight fight.
     
  18. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,856
    Likes Received:
    30,223
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    We're not on the other forum, don't you know ;)
     
  19. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Tinbucktoo
    I expect you would want us to pay for your bloody popcorn as well?:D
     
  20. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Location:
    Coventry
    What a top adult answer, you were definitely the bigger man here defusing what could have become another horrible argument.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice