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Am I correct in saying that.........

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by Andy Wales, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    If my mate, (The farmer and therefore Landowner) where I also of course do all my shooting with his full permission any time, day or night, is within sight or talking distance of me, I am allowed by Law to shoot his rimfires and centrefires legally even though I have no FAC of my own yet? I thought I had read about this question being asked here last week, but I can't seem to find the thread now?

    Thanks, Andy :)
     
  2. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    Andy,

    As long as you are under his supervision when in possesion or using any of the fire arm's, there is nothing ilegal and no laws broken.

    Andrew
     
  3. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Thanks for the reply Andrew :). I thought that was what I read.

    Just to be certain we are clear as we could both get in trouble otherwise!, you can do this 100% legaly even though I DON'T HAVE MY OWN FAC, nor have I applied for one yet ????

    Andy :)
     
  4. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Yup. If he's supervising you then you're okay.

    If he was at home in bed then you wouldn't be legal, but if he's withing shouting distance then you're fine.
     
  5. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Agreed with the above, you're 100% legal if the FAC holder is an 'occupier' or 'servant', this is how estate rifles are legal, hence Andrew here can take people deer culling legally.
     
  6. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Thanks so much guy's! I was a little worried as I have a little story to tell :D and I couldn't tell it until I was certain no laws were being broken. We all know how closely the 'net' is monitored for everything in the current era and how easy it might be for the authorities to work out who you are and where you are from just by careful close study of your posts......and this being a forum for and about GUNS!!......nuff said.

    If I somehow cost my mate his FAC I don't think he'd be none too amused, or my mate anymore and I would lose 1,300 acres of FAC rated shooting land :Cry:

    Short story to follow. Please note that it's just an enjoyable little read and I just needed to know about the FAC thing first just to be sure. Thanks.

    Andy :)

    EDIT: The nice little and funny story RE: FAC, will have to wait until later today as I have just been informed by the Girlfriend that we are going out for a nice Sunday dinner with friends lol. So it's a bath and shave for me and I'm late already......Watch this thread as it may make you smile and take you FAC guys back a little ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  7. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Now for the not so little story. You'll need a cuppa lol

    First gun(s) I ever shot were Air Pistols/Rifles when we were kids. Mate with far too easy going parents had them :eek:. We were 9 or 10. Continued off and on until early teenage years then stopped. Got to 17 and worked for an RFD/Farm supplies business and got my SGC. Used various shotguns for maybe 5 years and gave it all up.

    Jump on 28 years and I'm now almost 50. Bought and took up air rifle shooting again about a month ago on my old school mate's farm as we were good friends for years and I practically lived up there when we were kids. Main Farm is now 500 acres on the part I'm allowed to shoot so far :D, but he owns 2 other small farms of 250 acres each and some forestry/woodland making a total of 1,300 acres as I asked him yesterday about it. Maybe some day he'll ask me if I want to go shoot the other 800 acres as well but for now, 500 acres is a good start and I very much appreciate it as you can all imagine :violent2:

    Anyhow, I'm up there yesterday and i'm in a small field sat at a picnic bench that is all set up for target practise and zeroing. The rimfire/centrefire target is 120 yards away downrage against a huge bank as the safe backstop. I of course am just shooting targets to zero my scope at 20 Yards :susp: with a pole dug in the grass, with various boards on it to place targets with the intention of going for a walk around the farm buldings for rabbits later. I can hear my mate working up the yard somewhere cursing and swearing and telling the dogs to shut the F up now and then as usual lol :D

    So he finishes for the day and must have heard me shooting the rifle (he knows I'm there somewhere as I always text him first to say I'm going up). He comes to the fence to my side about 30 yards away and says, "Alright boy?" (We're the same age 49 lol). I shouted over yeah, just zeroing this scope before I go for a walk. Oh he says, I was given a pistol by someone yesterday for nothing as they don't want it anymore, a little .177 Hold on he says, I'll go get it and show it to you :). He goes off to the farmhouse and is back in 2 minutes and joins me by the picnic bench where I'm shooting. He gets it out of it's case and hands it to me. It's a nice looking little thing too ;). American made and a little side pumper! He takes it back, pumps it up, pulls back the bolt and chambers a pellet and hands it back. Let's see if you can hit your target with that he says. I take a look down the tiny open sights and take aim. Even at 20 yards with good eyesight I can't make out the numbers on the target of course, but oh well lol. I ease back the trigger and she makes a sweet little phut and we hear the pellet strike the target! We walked down and took a look and I had missed the bull by maybe one inch ;). All pure luck of course as I couldn't even see the bloody thing properly :D. So we go back and sit down, just enjoying the sunshine and the WONDERFUL peace and quiet and chatting away as usual about the crazy and funny things we did around the farm when we were young. That's when he told me he'd bought tons of land in the years we lost touch and it was now 1,300 acres between several properties. Wifes away for the day he said. I could tell that as there was no more farm work for the day he was maybe at a loss what to do, so I decided to just chat and forget the rabbits for the day.

    Then he says to me, "You ever shot a rifle Andrew?" I said yeah of course, pointing at my Hatsan 60s lying on the picnic table in front of us. What do you think that is mate? ;) He grinned ear to ear and said that ain't no rifle Andrew. He said stay there, I'll take this little popgun back and I'll go get a real rifle and you can shoot it down there pointing 120 yards away downrange to you know where. Gulp! While he's gone I remember him telling me 2 of the other boys use their rifles there to zero and I also remember him telling me about a few of his own. I think it's a .22 rimfire, must be, everyone with an FAC has one surely? Or maybe a .17HMR. He's back again in a 5 minutes carrying a massive plastic case, puts it on the table and opens it up. Out comes this rifle, surprisingly smaller and thinner than I imagined and he says so, you going to shoot it or what? I said heck I don't know mate lol. I've never shot anything like that before, what is it, a .22 rimfire I guess eh? That ain't no .22 he says grinning. Take a look at the front end. He says the magazine is out and then checks to be certain there's no round chambered and hands it too me. I think there was an echo as I spoke and looked as the bore seemed so big lol :eek:. I said so what is it then mate? He said it's a triple 2 still grinning. I scratch my head, hmm :susp:. He said you frightened of it or what? I said no mate, just slightly nervous as I've never shot a rimfire before. He says casually, oh that's no rimfire Andrew, it's a centrefire. I thought oh sh** lol.

    (We F and Blind and 'C' ALL the time by the way so you can just imagine this conversation. I just can't type that here to keep within the forum rules lol) :wasntme:

    He said you want me to shoot it first I suppose? I said yeah if you don't mind. So he says again muttering to himself there's F all to be frightened of mun (Translates to man I guess for non welsh folks haha!). So he loads up the magazine (5), pushes it home, rests the rifle on the rest (A log from a tree lmao) and says watch this. I'm watching his finger ease the trigger back only 3ft to his left, level with him in anticipation. Next thing (You FAC boys will know what's coming), there's a BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM like I haven't heard since my shotgun days and I almost jumped backwards in fright and fell on my arse with my ears ringing like crazy :roflmao:.

    Oh, did I forget to mention he has no moderator on this .222? Oops, silly me lol :facepalm:

    Oh my goodness, what a crack! It went echoing off in all directions and people must have heard it miles away and his farm is on higher ground and we were down behind the yard in a dip lol. He looks at me grinning and says so, what you think of that? Going to have a crack at her? I said wtf, I didn't expect it to be so loud lol. He said oh that's nothing and hands it to me. So I sit down a little nervously, though not as bad as I thought, plonk it on the rest and prepare to shoot. I say any recoil mate? No he says, virtually none with these. It's not a very light trigger is it? Nope he says, but if you want it to be it can. I aim through the scope at the board 120 Yards away and ease the trigger back. WOW!!!!!!! What's wrong he says? I said holy sh** mate that's so loud my ears are ringing. Haven't had that since my shotgun days. He said you want another go? I said darned right I do, that was ******** awesome :D. So I fired the other 3 in the mag and he filled it twice more, so by the time we were done, I had 14 shots of it in all :)

    How about that guys? First time I've ever shot a "bullet" rifle in my whole life and it turns out to be a centrefire .222 ;) :D I thought it was a great experience and I told my mate thanks for that, I really enjoyed it :). He said no problem boy, glad you had fun with it and don't worry, you will get to shoot it again and some of the other one's I have here too :D.

    He gave me all the used cases and said there, keep them as a little souvenir of your first shots of a bullet rifle.

    I asked him about the range and power compared to a 17/.22 and he said it's frightening and you really have to be certain of very good backstops before letting rip anywhere with it. He then packed her up, and said ah well, see you boy whilst mumbling to himself about possibly getting the misses to order a "chinese" on her way home for their tea lol.

    So now you know why I asked twice about trying the rifle in his presence as I couldn't tell the story in this online forum without being certain it was all legal and above board lol ;).

    Please note that no animals or birds were humanely dispatched during the telling of this story. By dammed, I kind of wish they were though!!!! :p ;) :D

    Sorry it's very long and a lot longer than I really intended, but I couldn't tell it any other way without telling it properly, just as it happened. I hope you enjoyed reading it and found some of it a little amusing!!

    Andy :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  8. Jesterdog

    Jesterdog Donator

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    Great write up ...... I was jealous of your permission, now more so:D
    Fantastic account, as we are getting used to.
     
  9. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    Andrew,
    If it's got a loud bang I'm in. RF and CF are very addictive as I know only to well, I had mbison off the forum a couple a weeks back come down from Newcastle way to play for the day. He went home smiling too.

    Glad you had fun that's whats it all about.

    Andrew
     
  10. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    :D:D Enjoyed reading that mate.......
     
  11. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    A very good read.
    Strange your mate does not bother with a mod. Pick yourself up some foam ear plugs for next time I bet your ears were ringing like hell.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  12. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Yeah, he said he never got round to it when he first had it, and then later he couldn't be bothered messing about with it. I think he said his other rifles do have mods on them though :). He's a busy farmer and rarely has a chance to do any shooting himself and when he does, it's pure and simple "fox control" and nothing else. (he hates them lol).

    I'm not sure they've stopped ringing yet mate and I shot it 14 times on Saturday :eek:.

    Andy :)
     
  13. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    A couple of things I missed in the story.

    About that trigger. He said put the safety on a moment Andrew. Then he reached down and changed something by the trigger. He said put the rifle on the block pointing downrange ready and keep your finger well away from the trigger. When you're ready, put the saftey off and take a shot but careful as it's now in the "hair trigger" mode you mentioned!! I did as asked and got ready and my finger barely touched the darn thing and booooooooooooom, it was off and took me a little by surprise I don't mind saying :eek:. He said even though you knew, it still caught you out slightly didn't it (laughing his arse off lol). I said yes it bloody did and that's pretty worrying, please change it back to how it was when it needed a bit of pressure. Far safer :eek:. He said I use it with the harder pressure option too as it's too risky the other way.

    The other thing was that although this rifle is a .222 and very powerful, the saftey does NOT engage automatically :eek:. It's manual only! Heck, even my Hatsan 60s .22 has a very good auto 'saftey on' system and that's the way I prefer it to be honest. I don't like the idea of manual saftey myself. One could forget far too easily and that could prove very dangerous in my view ;).

    And the last thing I can think of is I was very, very surprised at how lightweight, thin and small these .222's are and most RF/CF rifles seem to be about the same. I thought for some reason they would be big heavy things. Even my Hatsan 60s makes it look small and my Air Rifle weight is what, two, three times as much perhaps?

    What an experience! I can't wait to have another shot or two with it as well as the other FAC rifles he owns :D

    Andy :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  14. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    It's called a set trigger he will have pushed the trigger forwards.
    Cheers Andy
     
  15. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Hi, I meant to reply to this ages ago and forgot :rolleyes:. I see you're from Swansea and If you drive, there are a gazillion farms down your way, many of them HUGE arable farms, especially all over the Gower Peninsula. I used to deliver to more farms down that way than I care to remember when I was 17-20. I had permission to shoot (Shotgun back then) on some of them. Have you tried going to your local farms or down to the one's I mentioned on the Gower and asked for permission? You never know, it's always worth a try. They can only say no.......or yes! ;). I guess it depends on your age etc but give it a go. I would if I didn't have plenty enough to be going on with (for now anyway :D). The sons/daughters who are possibly running the farms now probably wouldn't remember me as it was 29 ish years ago, but that wouldn't stop me asking and telling them I delivered to their "Old Man" for years at one time :). Give it a try and let us know how you get on :) Oh, I strongly urge you to become a member (Air Rifle only will do), of the B.A.S.C. first as that or some other form of insurance will almost certainly be required by most, if not all farmers these days ;)

    Andy :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  16. techno

    techno Busy Member

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    Me too!
     
  17. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Me too what? lol :D
     

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