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Advice please

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by metalman, May 13, 2014.

  1. metalman

    metalman Big Poster

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    Hi there, looking into FAC for some of my permissions, and need a bit of advice about the tool for the job

    My needs are, very low recoil, quiet, and accurate at 100 yds

    The quarry will be mainly rabbits, with the odd fox

    A gunsmith i know recommended a BRNO, but throwing this open

    Any help would be most welcome,

    cheers Rich
     
  2. jonesy185

    jonesy185 Busy Member

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    17 rem, 223 accurate !
     
  3. jonesy185

    jonesy185 Busy Member

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    I use 17 hmr for rabbits and the occasional Mr fox . Very accurate rim fire . If you think you will be shooting foxes further than 100 yards then I'd consider centre fire , I use my 243 for primary fox control . Don't get me wrong the 17 hmr will drop a fox at 100 with a good shot placement . I have a ansutchz 1517 and it's bang on for me . And as I stated above about the 17 rem and 223 , 17 rem is a popular center fire with low recoil and very accurate , there for the 223 which will have a bit of a kick but again very popular fox round too .
     
  4. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    I've got very similar requirements to you and went for a 17HMR CZ455 Varmint 16" barrel thumbhole laminate stock and it's been spot on for me with no problems up to 150 yards which will increase I'm sure up to 200 yards when I've used it a bit more.

    The other option is a .22RF but you'll need to master hold over if you want to go to 100 yards but the benefits is the quietness as it's no noisier than my air rifle when using sub sonic rounds.

    Both the above are for rabbits with the 17HMR being good for fox at a max of 150 yards although I don't shoot foxes with it as the North wales police advise against it.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  5. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    I would give the 'Browning T bolt' in 17hmr a very good once over, before you purchase anything. I bought one, and I really like it. Light, short, I went for the varmit version. 16" screw cut. Very accurate rifle. just one other word on the subject. Don't make the error I did, in wasting a fortune on moderators in the hope that you will chill the sound down, you wont. With a 'sac' moderator you will do fine. And don't think the crack will deter rabbits, they have no idea where the sonic crack has come from, and more often than not will just freeze giving you the option for a second shot. love my 'T' bolt to bits. KB1.
     
  6. tisme

    tisme Donator

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    17hmr as they are cheap to shoot and very accurate until the wind blows. Not great on fox's unless you can really place the shot well. Why not also put in for a .204ruger, 222 or 223 as well? It won't be long before you'll want one anyway!
     
  7. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    My RFD (Old School guy) said the same as your Gunsmith. BRNO/CZ .22 LR
    I have a CZ452 .22LR It's a cracking gun, accurate, mines zeroed at 100yrd so below or above that a little holdover/under, whisper quiet with a mod (any mod), good build quality and no auto mags to miss feed, excellent value for money. Some say the trigger is heavy out the box but I'm happy with mine, it's personal choice. I like the positive safety catch on it, but again others don't.

    I'm not promoting taking a fox with one myself but I know people who do, and have been for many more years than the internet has existed. I wouldn't be surprised if the .22 round has taken more fox than any other round if the truth be told.

    As already suggested, you may be better applying for a .223 for the fox.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  8. 177

    177 Donator

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    Everyone will recommend what they have, or what they wish they had.

    So I'll do the same :)

    I went for a CZ American in .22 with a short 16" barrel and a SAK mod.

    I started with an MTC Genesis UL 3-9x40 on top which went back the day after I got it - absolutely rubbish scope for hunting, although it would probably serve in well lit paper punching sessions.

    I temporarily put a Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 1.75.5x32 on top and that worked beautifully as a super-light, compact and very bright dawn/dusk scope but, as of today, I've gone the other way and dropped a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x50 BDC on top :eek:

    Other than the Vortex Diamondback, nothing is as bright in low light as the Prostaff, and Nikon's Spot On software http://spoton.nikonsportoptics.com/ allows you to plot very precise aim points. Couple that with a laser range finder and I have no case at all for a .17HMR that costs three times the price to run, and anyone who wants to see just how far you can push a .22 rimfire is welcome to have a go with mine :cool:

    I went for a Browning A-Bolt Medallion in .270 for deer, and the exact same gun in .223 for Scottish Roe deer, and for foxes and long range rabbit/corvid control.

    I tried a lot of guns before realising that price did not buy more comfort or less weight (although it can, sometimes) so I plumped for the guns that felt the most comfortable in the shoulder.

    Good luck with whatever you end up with :)
     
  9. adymorris

    adymorris Keyboard Hero

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    As said above you get 10 people giving you 10 different answers

    FAC air is generally frowned upon by the police for fox control as it is deemed as inhumane, if they allow .17/.22 for fox those calibers will also suffice for rabbits etc then there is your starting point, from that try a few out and see what best suites your shoulder & pocket, if you can afford quality glass then get quality glass, if not get a cheaper chinese type scope, most will do out to 150 yards if they get through the chinese quality control minefield.
     
  10. coney

    coney Engaging Member

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    For the requirements you describe a Brno/Cz is more than adequate, and as for foxing the 22rf has probably accounted for more foxes than any other calibre up to 100yds.
     
  11. 177

    177 Donator

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    You hear the same phrase regarding deer when discussing .22rf in America and Canada...
     
  12. coney

    coney Engaging Member

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  13. metalman

    metalman Big Poster

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    Just got in from perm, the HW did me proud. Well thank you everybody for your input, it will certainly give me food for thought. Yes, my friend the gunsmith is old school, but i trust his judgement (lives w.midlands :D)

    I was amazed how "cheap" some of the guns were compared to PCP's, reading some post's elswhere on this section i get the the impression that 17 cal is noisy(please correct me if wrong), so might be leaning toward 22.
    Scope wise, i already have MTC,Hawke and Nikon, and will sell a couple of guns to fund this FAC, so might keep the scopes

    Think i'll have a go at understanding the terminology regarding the various models, last time i shot a "bullet" gun was in 1970 (Army)

    Once again, thanks for the input

    cheers Rich
     
  14. jonesy185

    jonesy185 Busy Member

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    Here's my ansutchz 1517 with success ; )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2014
  15. 177

    177 Donator

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    It's commonly suggested in America and Canada that the .22 rimfire has accounted for more deer and other big game than all the other calibres put together.

    I have no idea whether it's true or not, but I often hear it when I am over there.

    I'm not saying it's right, wrong or otherwise, but it's often talked about.

    One of the biggest bears ever shot in Canada was killed with a .22

    The general campfire chatter often brings up the topic of the humble .22 rimfire, and just how deadly it can be.

    Very underrated in my opinion, and not to be treated lightly which, unfortunately, some do :(
     
  16. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    That line made me chuckle. :)
     
  17. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    Any bullet will kill foxes although some will abliterate them where as others will just kill them adequately with a well placed shot, problem with .22 is if you hit a foxes skull as the wrong angle the bullet can bounce straight off it and all you here is the bullet ricochet off it, not good but it often causes enough damage to kill the fox, just potentially it wouldnt.

    But like already said in the US .22 have killed some serious amount of deer and critters as they say, I know I wouldn't like one shooting at my skull!

    Saying that things have changed a great deal to when I was a lad holding a big car headlamp attatched to a battery for my dad squeaking foxes up in the 1980s, with a .22 brno which was his gamekeepers tool of choice along with a side by side shotgun and accounted for a lot of foxes.

    Anything like .222 or .223 will do the job with ease at serious range, a fox doesn't take much killing Ive seen them killed in a snare with a short stick with a tap on the head.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  18. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    My buddy uses the very Underated .22 Hornet for rabbits and foxes plus everything inbetween. It's a cracking little thing, very accurate, low recoil, reloadable, suppressed no more noise than a hmr and 30rg to 60gr bullets.
    Its an all rounder for small critters from where I'm sitting.

    Andrew
     
  19. nobbybonez

    nobbybonez Busy Member

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    HMR does crack off a bit. to be fair though, any supersonic round will have the associated noise.
    if you wish to keep the noise down in order to not spook quarry the HMR may still be a good option, rabbits will often sit there not having a clue where the noise came from. with fox it won't matter.
    if the reason for stealth is neighbours etc, i'd go with .22lr. quiet as a quiet thing with subs.
    check if your police force will allow .22lr/HMR for fox, this might help sway your decision...
     
  20. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    I'm not saying I disagree as quite a few shooters say the same, but from my own experiences with my HMR on different areas of my perms, after taking a shot with the HMR on looking around the only moving thing to be seen is the imaginary Tumble weed blowing through the area. Then a fifteen minute wait before I see even a bird land in a tree.
     

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