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Accidently buying a registered firearm?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by keithy, May 25, 2014.

  1. keithy

    keithy Keyboard Hero

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    Hi I have the opportunity to buy a Rapid 7, second hand, the question is if the gun some time in its life has been registered as a FAC gun and I dont know about it and it currently has a 11 ft lb out put can i get into trouble? If so how would I check to see if it has ever been registered as a FAC gun?:confused:
     
  2. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

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    If someone has taken the time, effort and money to convert a rifle to FAC I can't in honesty see someone spending hundreds to convert it back to sub 12, I think it's very unlikely that you would buy a Rapid that had been de-evolved because they are popular FAC rifles and hold their price!

    Chrono when you buy, if its sub 12, I'd be almost sure it's always been sub 12. ;)
     
  3. talent

    talent Posting Addict

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    I once bought a brand spanking new Diana 34 in .22 , chrono showed it running at 18ftlb . sent it to a well known tuner (that I will not name) to tame it explaining that I wanted it detuned and smoothed out .... it came back even worse ..... sent it back again to the tuner , came back 11.5 . very smooth and quiet . same happened to my dad when he bought a new hw90 running very hot . so it does happen
     
  4. larryking28

    larryking28 Busy Member

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    I bought a HW95 when they first came put that seemed to hit field targets very hard.
    When we stuck it on a chrono it worked out at about 14ft/lbs and that was straight out of the box.
     
  5. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    That's not a registered firearm though is it. It's a sub 12 gun that has gone over power.

    I don't think anyone that had the rapid on ticket would sell it to a non fac holder that could land them in deep #### .
    If you have it on ticket you must tell the police you have sold it and give details within 7 days or get in serious trouble.

    The only way I think it could have been a registered firearm was if it is a stolen gun.
    If it were stolen would someone bother turning it back down to sub 12.

    It could have course been set to run at 12ftlbs+ by a previous owner that would make it an unregistered section 1 firearm.

    If you have REASON to suspect the gun may be dodgy contact your local feo. Who may be able to check if its stolen for you.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  6. keithy

    keithy Keyboard Hero

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    I have heard of of some one who has a rapid that ran at 30ft lb alegedly, that now has it running below 12ft lb by simply changing a spring. How would they stand in the law?
     
  7. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    The gun is now perfectly legal as long as the gun was never put on his fac.
    You will want to run it over a chrono and check that it is consistent and accurate before buying just incase some of the mods are still in place.
    Unless the price is very good I would leave it alone.

    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  8. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    This.

    If it was ever registered as FAC there will be a paper trail with the guns serial no. right up to the gun cabinet it was stolen from. The Police will take the gun & return it to the rightful owner, or not depending how they feel about it, & you will be out any money you paid for it.
    If you had bought it you could try suing the seller for your cash back but it will be a civil action so even if you win it can be difficult to actually see any money. If there's a chain of owners they will each have to sue the previous one until you get to the guy who bought it off the scrote that stole it, who might well be suing someone with no money, in prison.

    All the while there's the possibility the Police will take a further interest in people handling stolen goods etc, especially as it's a registered firearm - a bloody nightmare all round.

    I'd get the serial no. to an FEO to check it before parting with any cash, but as you can see if it is stolen you could be opening a can of worms, especially if you are buying it off a mate...

    Do you have any reason to suspect it may actually have been an FAC gun at one time, or is this just out of interest? - sort of a what if excercise?
     
  9. keithy

    keithy Keyboard Hero

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    accidently buying a fire arm

    Purely a what if exercise, if the gun has gone thro many owners, who knows if it was registered or manfactured as a FAC without some detective work. My last thread mentioned a gun being reduced to legal levels by simply changing a spring was this gun originaly a FAC gun?:confused:
     
  10. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

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    Theoben did offer a service to take a gun off fac but the block (action ) was swaped so serial numbers was diffrent but was very pricey to do hth dave


    Ps most second hand rapids what have been passed about at soe time have been 30 ftlb as long as not registerd and now sub 12 perfectly legal to own
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  11. keithy

    keithy Keyboard Hero

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    Thanks dave I think before I get a rapid I will check with theoben and the police before parting with any cash. Thanks for the info folks.
     
  12. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

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    U wont be able o check with theoben mate it went bust coup,e of year go here in uk no one is going to sell u a on ticket gun so as long as its under 12 ftlb on a chrono is legal pal the down fall of rapids is lads lime to up the power on them with them having big tanks best bet is only to buy one with anti tamper still fitted they are still out there unless u no trust the seller if there saying its been 30 ftlb in the past chances are it will need a new valve and ports may of been enlarged alot if wrk to sort out if u havnt the meens to do so atb dave
     
  13. airtech

    airtech Busy Member

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    once a rifle is took to fac it does not matter if it is took to 12ft again you still need a fac to buy or own it
     
  14. Snipertez

    Snipertez Donator

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    Just a thought lads ?

    If someone was looking to maximise profit on a gun, then wouldn't a sub -12fpe version be easier to sell and fetch a better price than a FAC version ?

    Just a thought ?
     
  15. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    True, but if the gun had been on fac it could not be turned down to 12ftlbs and sold to a non fac holder legally. Anyone selling a weapon they had owned on fac and not completing the correct paperwork would be on deep deep trouble. Just not worth it for a few quid.

    Of courses the gun could have been an a 12ftlb version that was home tuned to above 12ftlbs in the past illegally and then turned back down to 12 for the sale.

    We should really call a gun that has been home tuned to over 12ftlbs without the correct paperwork an unregistered section 1 firearm or an overpowered sub 12 gun etc.

    Rather than an FAC gun or a registered firearm.

    As if we don't its difficult to tell if people mean a gun that has been legally held on an Fac in the past,
    or a gun that has been home tuned to be above the limit without the correct paperwork.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  16. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

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    As andy says this is not a fac gun as its not on the firearms register and portraing firearms certifacate holders in a bad light theres no way any fac cert holder would sell a gun Tuned to sub 12 power there fore this has been a illegal air gun in its history but so have a lot if rapids stealths guns with big tanks by power crazed nut if the seller has said only spring was changed then he had not a lot of knowlledge of what was doing so prob easily putback to legal power and run sweet but if other mods were introduced then a few things need sorting to balance it back out to sub 12 powers atvb dave
     
  17. Clubshot

    Clubshot Clubshot

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    Big issue is that All Air Guns are Made for the World Market - with many different Power levels

    And are made to be adjusted to the Countries different Power levels

    Argument about UK Air Guns Being Capable of exceeding the sub 12FP Rule - unlicensed

    I am not aware of a UK Central Gun Register - of a National Power Listing

    Or even a National listing of Stolen Air Gun's - As it seems Most Police Areas operate of different Computer Systems

    And yes it is possible to buy different Block / Parts so that past Seriel numbers do not match with original build

    Joys of buying Second Hand Air Gun's

    BOB/R
     
  18. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    All firearms are listed on the NFLMS system, all police forces use it. It's a very powerful system able to track every gun you have ever owned.
    The PNC is coupled to the NFLMS data base but all the info can only be accessed by feo's and licensing managers.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  19. Snipertez

    Snipertez Donator

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    l should have been more specific in that, when l said "someone", l meant a scrote acting illegally and when l say fac, l'm just refering to the rating of the gun.

    l take onboard the points you've mentioned and see that this could be confussing.

    l was just trying to highlight a potential motive for a possibly suspect action to help raise awarness. There are plenty of knumbsculls about with too much time on there hands :(
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  20. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    I suppose you could have an FAC one out there without it being stolen, if someone dies & their wife or kids just get shot of the air rifles, & give the 'proper' guns to the RFD or whatever - it would show up pretty quickly by the deficiencies on the FAC, but by then they could be long gone via the local car boot sale...
     

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