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Aa400/410 Power Pot

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Virak, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Virak

    Virak Busy Member

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    Anyone in the know regarding the pot height to effectiveness of the power grubscrew.
    At 55.5mm pot height it looks likely the power grubscrew is in a very sensitive setting ie 1/2 turn lost >a whole ftlb + .See me graphs posted today)
    As previous am happy the gun has a nice linear power, for future reference when the gun has to be stripped( Fist firing valve lasted 10 months/ 7500 pellets,NO reason the 2nd won't do same).
    Or is this a black art and can be gun specific on supplied or condition of fv spring hammer spring etc
    Thanks
    Roger
    PS am honestly not going to touch, next strip will hopefully be >10 months away and will be fitting new springs -FV+ hammer
     
  2. sharpsman

    sharpsman Keyboard Hero

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    Roger i have two 16 - 17 year old s400s and both have the same hammer and valve return springs in them they had from new , they don't and won't need changing as often as that .
     
    Lev Levvin and Vulcanfreak like this.
  3. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Major Poster

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    Pot height is best set at 57mm apparently... :thumb:
     
    Lev Levvin likes this.
  4. RapidStype

    RapidStype Busy Member

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    Have never been inside my 400.
    What is a pot...is it a plenum type thing or just some sort of valve seating ..???
     
  5. sharpsman

    sharpsman Keyboard Hero

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    the pot is like a little chamber that fills up every time the gun is fired and the pot presses down on the the outlet valve spring wich in return presses down onto the firing valve , i can't say if it's like a plenum as i don't know what one is or does
     
    RapidStype likes this.
  6. Bezzer

    Bezzer Busy Member

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    We can but hope :D
    If it ain't broke don't fix it, there should be no need whatsover to replace the springs or hammer on a rifle as new as yours, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has done so on much older ones, apart from those who have tuned, experimented etc.
     
  7. Virak

    Virak Busy Member

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    Cheers Beezer, but it seems rare for the firing valve to fail, but mine did(@ 10 months/7500 pellets, and the replacement after 100 shots is showing signs of the "step".
    So my logic if the FV fails agan is would these 2 springs cure the problem
    I will be regularly recording chrono readings @ 160, 130 and 110 Barr just one of each and monitor.

    I feel a bit jinxed, the graphs I have given a couple of days ago show the FV fault if anyone else had this gun I have would they not question as I am what to do .
    As the owner of the gun still a year old there is nothing one can do to stop the FV fault, it was there is fixed for now, but fundamentally there is no reason for it not to happen again, the reasons are within the gun.
     
    TORNADOS7 likes this.
  8. pbrown

    pbrown Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    The problems you're experiencing Roger I've not heard of before and it's surprising to hear of problems with such a young s400, have you kept Air Arms updated and spoken to them? What have they had to say?
     
  9. Virak

    Virak Busy Member

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    Firstly to just fill it with air and shoot it ignore the power discrepancy - it won't make any difference to the accuracy.
    But I was advised if still not happy bring/ send the gun in, at unknown cost ,just postage to me is a lot as a pensioner
    Chewed that over, my brain was at a balance, plus I bought the gun as one of the most longevitably! reliable pcp's
    Used this froum sought help on it an Utube etc had some helpful advise and PM's with some very knowledgeable and helpful chaps ( cheers Rog the bodge).
    Gun now to me incredibly accurate 10ftlbs better than as new.
    If it went to AA they would likely have just replaced the firing valve.
    I worked for a number of years in Quality Assurance plastics industry.
    For making something like the firing valve, there is so much to get wrong to have the moulded head on a metal rod.ie

    Getting the correct plastic was hard
    Machine setting variables- temperature ( in lots of places in the moulding machine)
    Time ( throughout each " sprue"( multiple of pieces on a plastic " branch"
    Operator competence
    Selling price

    Lots of variable to get poorly made parts.

    This was in the days of Quality Assurance prior to operators being there own inspection/QA

    So a simple bit of plastic on a rod might not quite be as it should be or used to be
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  10. telephonepete

    telephonepete Donator

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    Roger i have an idea. Why dont you Part ex your gun with your RFD it will cost a bit but not a lot and when you get the new one just leave the damn thing alone. :D:D:D:D:D Only kidding Mate....I think.
     
  11. Bezzer

    Bezzer Busy Member

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    Your logic is flawed, the hammer spring only gets the hammer to open the valve doesn't have any effect on it's closing/ridging, the firing valve spring only helps the valve return to a point, the major force is the air pressure you can in fact run the gun without one if set up right.
    The term you need to be looking at is "s**t happens" your firing valve failed early, don't keep looking for a reason when there isn't one other than a poor choice of valve material.
     
    Aston_Shooter likes this.
  12. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Major Poster

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    That's the point though buddy, it ain't rare for the "new type" exhaust valves to fail, it's not so much a failure though, more a distortion... :thumb:

    To have fatigued as early as yours has is a bit strange though...
     
  13. Virak

    Virak Busy Member

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    Is the new one in my gun ok then? Beezer as it's likely to be the same material as the original, I did not choose the material.

    Is the a flawed comment.
    Thus " s**t is likely to happen I am being prepared for it
     
    TORNADOS7 likes this.
  14. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Major Poster

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    It will be for a while, until it distorts again... :thumb:
     
  15. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Major Poster

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    What we need is someone to make an aftermarket one out of a more appropriate material...
     
  16. Pete236

    Pete236 Big Poster

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    My S410 gets through valves like there's no tomorrow, and the newer the valve the less long they seem to last.

    The firing pot optimum setting is 57.2mm and this gets me 70 shots at 780fps from a 170 bar fill.
    There should be no need to replace the hammer for a long time yet, nor the hammer spring, and these two won't have any affect on the firing valve distortion. Although, possibly having your firing pot set a few mm shorter will increase the pre-load pressure on the valve and make it distort more quickly.
     
    Virak likes this.
  17. Pete236

    Pete236 Big Poster

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    Cloverleaf was looking into it a while ago, but came up against quite a few barriers I seem to remember.
     
    Virak and TORNADOS7 like this.
  18. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Major Poster

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    Yes, couldn't find an appropriate material to use if I remember rite...
     
    Virak likes this.
  19. Virak

    Virak Busy Member

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    The firing pot optimum setting is 57.2mm and this gets me 70 shots at 780fps from a 170 bar fill.
    There should be no need to replace the hammer for a long time yet, nor the hammer spring, and these two won't have any affect on the firing valve distortion. Although, possibly having your firing pot set a few mm shorter will increase the pre-load pressure on the valve and make it distort more quickly.[/QUOTE]
    Thanks Pete232 makes sense
    Question is a carbine likely to be different, with regard to the pot height?.
    Though all guns are subtly individual, the work Cloverleaf( appreciated C) recently did on the performance of a number of guns did show differences between classic and carbine 4*0, (equally even mored between variants of Hw100)
     
  20. Bezzer

    Bezzer Busy Member

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    There are differences between similar models let alone between variations of that model. I've stuck all the action parts from firing valve to springs and hammer along with same TP diameter and barrel length from a 400 to a 500, they use exactly the same parts and the 400 did 20% more shots :shrug:
    Forget other peoples' rifles just concentrate on your own, you are worrying about things for no real reason other than you are one of life's "werret ar5es":D
     

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