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A solution to co2 / temp problems......?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Beachcomber, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Beachcomber

    Beachcomber Donator

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    Being new to the sport the budget is tight so I've been looking at co2 powered rifles (break / sidearm are a littel too hard for my boy to use)

    The main concern seems to be how the ambient temprature affects the performance.

    Now, this may be daft - but if you have a gun with an 88g cylinder wouldn't it be a good idea to stick a couple of disposable hand warmers (air activated type) around it?

    Not only would it make it far more comfy to handle, but it would warm the cylinder (not warm enough to cause concern) and keep it warm for several hours thus avoiding the pressure loss associated with cold temps.

    Yes, I know the price of co2 / hand warmers / gun will soon add up to the price of a second hand pcp so it's more of a thought exercise but what do you think?
     
  2. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    Some people do this but I can't see it helping a lot,the rate in which these drop in temps is quite something...firing my Beretta yesterday,wen't from room temp to covered in ice and unable to touch in just a couple of mags
     
  3. smudgerii

    smudgerii Busy Member

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    What are you using the rifle for? Plinking or hunting?

    plinking, then don't worry to much leave 30 secs between shots and make sure you check zero before each session.

    hunting, check power before deciding to use the rifle for hunting, if close enough to full power then follow advice above...
     
  4. Honest Bob

    Honest Bob Big Poster

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    When using a gun, with an external 88g Co2 cylinder, keeping the cylinder warm, is of no use, if the gun its self is cold, it is the gun that must be warm. Atb, Bob.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  5. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    Well why not make your CO2 into a pcp? Get a convertor and a regulated buddy bottle (as used by the paintballers) and voila, CO2 to PCP!
     
  6. spitnik

    spitnik Member

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    I disagree with Honest Bob, I think warming the bottle will help, that will determine the pressure inside the cylinder (which can vary from lower than 800psi to over 1200), as for the rest of the gun, the gas will pass through the action so fast it will not have much chance to "pick up the cold" from it so that won't have so much affect.

    I'd be concerned about over heating the cylinder, but stay below 60 deg C and you should be ok.
    regards Nick
     
  7. smudgerii

    smudgerii Busy Member

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    You are turning liquid into a gas, it doesn't "pick up cold" it absorbs heat. The warmer the rifle internals are the higher the power, which is why co2 performs better in higher ambient temperatures. Delaying your 2nd shot allows the internals to recover some of the surrounding ambient temperature to improve the performance of the next shot.

    Even in a warm room if you rapid fire a co2 BB pistol you can get it to frost up the action...
     
  8. trumpetier

    trumpetier Very Active

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    no offence to anyone but imo co2 is great in the summer for fun with a pistol or even plinking with a cheap co2 rifle but thats as far as it goes for me....as said just my opinion of course ;):)
     
  9. Biker_Bob

    Biker_Bob Active Member

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    Agreed, it's not really any good once you go beyond a simple plinking set-up.
    I've tried Rabbitstoppers, Ratcatchers, Airmagnum 850, Benjamin AS392, XS/QB78 - all of them are basically "fun guns" and the limitations of CO2 as a rifle power source soon become painfully obvious.
     
  10. Paul Cann

    Paul Cann Posting Addict

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    No , when you evacuate the gas from the canister the temperature drops off a little, so warming it would give you max pressure for the first few shots but every time you pull the trigger it will get colder and the pressure will drop a little ,C02 behaves in much the same way as nitrous oxide and the only solution we found to it was using nitrogen pumped into the tank to maintain pressure , I used to own a nitrous oxide company and run a 20ft hybrid rocket car which used nitrous as the oxidiser
     
  11. Lee67

    Lee67 Posting Addict

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    Simple answer..in summer there good fun ..come winter and not even worth taking out...been there got the t shirt, if it's just for gardeln plinking then yes, your lad would have some fun, but weigh in the cost of co2' and such low power in winter and I'd say buy him a springer and he will soon get used to cocking etc
     
  12. Beachcomber

    Beachcomber Donator

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    Some interesting points here.
    I have to lean towards thinking that warming the bottle would help - obviously heat will be lost upon discharge but if you are starting off warm then it will be better than starting off cold.

    As for over-heating, this shouldn't be a problem as the heat patches are made to be used either on the skin or in clothing.


    Can you easilly convert co2 to pcp? I thought the higher pressures of pcp would require not only the bottle, but the seals / mechanism of the gun to be higher rated pressure wise as well?

    Is it possible to convert an XS79 to pcp?
     
  13. Lee67

    Lee67 Posting Addict

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    How old is your lad?
     
  14. andyz1000

    andyz1000 Banned

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    the xs79 is easy to convert to pcp/hpa as is the king ratcatcher
     
  15. smudgerii

    smudgerii Busy Member

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    Take your pick.. All 79's of some description

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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  17. smudgerii

    smudgerii Busy Member

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  18. Honest Bob

    Honest Bob Big Poster

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    I agree with one point, be carfull waming the 88g Co2. I have worked on several of these guns over the years. leave the gun outside to get cold, put a new bottle on it, power not good, warm the gun up, power good. As it is inside the gun that the Co2 does its work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  19. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

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    Just done mine!

    Uprated all the seals as a manner of course as I was refurbishing the gun!

    You need to replace both of the pressure block screws with some high tensile screws/bolts - very easy and pennies, if you don't do this the threads on the cheap Chinese screws could strip with the pressure blowing your bottle off like a grenade launcher!

    Fit a HPA bottle, I went for the 13 cubic inch Gorilla from RAP4 - http://www.rap4uk.com/Guerrilla-Air-MYTH-13ci-13-3000psi-Tank-p/ms805-1pi.htm

    You don't need it but an On/Off valve will help enormously when you want to dismantle the gun quickly without wasting air - http://www.rap4uk.com/RAP4-In-Line-On-Off-Air-Adapter-p/9183.htm

    Obviously you will need a dive tank as an air source and one of these connectors - http://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=197&cat=Quick+Coupler+Sockets

    But I went for the whole kit as it was cost effective - http://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=199&cat=Quick+Coupler+Starter+Kits

    That's all there is, a quick, simple, safe and inexpensive solution to the Co2/winter nightmare! :)
     

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  20. Paul Cann

    Paul Cann Posting Addict

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    Have you chrono'd any of these conversions? Surely upping the pressure will increase the ft/lbs?
     

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