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Scopes A few questions

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by tomsteebs, May 29, 2014.

  1. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Opinions please, considering either vortex diamond back or Nikon prostaffs for my scopes.

    Just wondering a few things.

    Quality of glass and fit/finish in comparison to eachother?

    Also, non ao scopes, what is the general difference in depth of field between 40mm and 50mm?

    And which bdc reticle is prefered? Is one more suited to .177 and one to .22?

    Cheers
     
  2. stevemandm

    stevemandm Honorary Member

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    no experience of either of the scopes tom. what I do know tho, is that scopes are the most personal part of your set up. what suits me, may not suit you, and as such, I would never buy a scope without trying first - i would only use reviews, recommendations and reputation to narrow my choice down. then the final choice will be made by my eyes.
    sorry for not answering your questions, just thought I'd add my take on scope selection
     
  3. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Hi Steve, thanks.

    I am narrowed down to these two companies as Nikon is my favourite manufacturer and world on the www is that vortex diamondbacks are the same as Nikon basically with the vipers being better optically.

    But vortex's aren't too common to hear about so its a bit of a punt, if I don't get much feedback then I'll probably take the safe option as the vortex diamondbacks don't look to be finished aswell.

    I suppose my main query that could be mo're widely answered is what the non ao scopes perform like as a 40mm and 50mm in terms of depth of focus as I've only ever had/kept ao scopes
     
  4. 177

    177 Donator

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    Vortex Diamondback are even better than Nikon Prostaff in low light.

    However, the BDC aim points are solid dots and they are further apart, making them less suitable to air rifle trajectory and cutting the number of aim points you have.

    The little circles on the Nikon BDC ret offer three aim points for each circle:

    1. top of the circle where it bisects the vertical post.
    2. centre of the circle (obviously :rolleyes: )
    3. bottom of the circle where it bisects the vertical post

    The Vortex BDC ret is effectively like using solid mil dots; there are three of them on your lower vertical post and two on the left a right horizontals.

    As impressive as they are I've stuck with Nikon Prostaff as a more appropriate overall package for air rifle ranges due to its more flexible ret and its amazing low light performance. The Nikon BDC not only offers multiple aim points per BDC circle, there are more of them and they are closer together.

    If squeezing the last minutes of low light performance from your scope is a top priority the Vortex Diamondback is undeniably better. You have to pay around £400 plus to better it.

    The Diamondback also offers a wider field of view, and is about half an inch shorter and, from memory, about half an ounce lighter.

    In use I've not noticed anything that would suggest one had a better or worse build quality or finish over the other.

    One of my mates and a chap I met recently both have high end Vortex rifle scopes and that's where Vortex are earning their reputation as far as I am concerned. Saying that, it's a different discussion entirely when it comes to sinking two and a half grand into a scope.

    Taking into account that you can easily spend double the asking price from other popular manufacturers and get infinitely less performance, I consider the Nikon Prostaff and Vortex Diamondback scopes to be about the best available if low light hunting is on your to-do list.

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  5. metalman

    metalman Big Poster

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    As above really, as a point and shoot takes some beating. Also one of the lighter ones. Have a 3-9x40 sat on HW 100 .177, and it is one of my favourite rigs
     
  6. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Thanks both, I really do get on well with the prostaff range and compared to other phillipine glassed scopes they seem to be considerably crisper.
    I very often do vermin shooting at dusk as they tend to be out then and i prefer shooting then, so the vortexs would be good.

    I also find the 40mm nikon efr quite narrow in their FOV. This was my interest in 50mm versions but only non ao as prices get too high after that IMO.

    The models I'm looking at are the 3-9x40, 3-9x50 & 4-12x40. (ao where possible)

    The vortex viper x40 is the same price as the Nikon x50 which makes me wonder whether the viper would be better in low light despite the smaller lense....
     
  7. 177

    177 Donator

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    I scored a 3-9x50 Nikon Prostaff BDC in its box for £90 a couple of weeks ago, which went onto my .22 rimfire :D

    It floods light in and gives some very useful aim points out to silly ranges - far further than I'd be happy shooting on quarry.

    The Vipers are very nice, but I keep coming back to a strong overall combination.

    Take a less useful (to me) ret and it really doesn't matter how much better it is at low light. In the morning the light will improve within minutes anyway and, in the evening, you can add illumination or go to night vision if necessary.

    That makes low light performance more important and useful later in the day IMHO but, depending on just how quickly darkness falls and whether there are any additional factors to take into consideration (cloud cover, inside/alongside buildings or under a tree canopy for example) this can be a mixed bag.

    Put it like this: Nikon Prostaff out-guns anything by Hawke even at twice the price. Vortex Diamondback is a little better than the Prostaff in low light, so you need to take other factors into consideration.

    We're shooting air rifles here - it's not like we're paying thousands for deer stalking where the last light shot could be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

    I am down to one Diamondback now (used to have three) but I still have several Prostaff scopes. What suits you is what's important though, not what suits me.

    If you want to start spending there's a lovely Leupold VX3 Long Range scope with tons of great features including side parallax adjustment, illuminated ret (if that's what blows your skirt up), a great mil dot or the even better Tactical Milling Ret with superb low light performance but you pay for it.

    It's dead easy to do the old "for X quid more I could buy..." which is usually followed by the "ah, but for only X quid more than that I could get..."

    Do a requirements analysis and start ticking off the must have vs the nice to have in relation to an established budget.

    If the Nikon Prostaff 2-7x32 BDC was readily available here in the UK, that's what all of my air rifles would have on top. Remember, we're talking typically 50 yards or less with an air rifle. Often it's a lot less...

    The biggest problem with Vortex scopes is finding one you can peep through to see how you get along with it :(
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  8. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Hi,

    Cheers, I'm vary wary of the old £20 more habit :) but it does happen from time to time :D

    What do you think of redfield revenges in terms of glass?


    I'm going to give vortex viper mildot scope a go for one of my rifles and see how vortex are.....

    Cheers
     
  9. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    a little update, i have got a new vortex viper 6.5-20x50 sf mildot, for £250! so this will be going on either a fx2000 .22 or a aa ev2 mk4 .177.
    I don't usually go for big magnification scopes and really font bother with 50mm or 30mm tubes!

    But thisbisnt a long scope neither is it heavy so I'm hoping it will have a good field of view and give plenty or benefits.

    im expecting it to be a very good scope and the best i've owned or used, dont let me down vortex!

    from here i will probably buy nikons bdc for my others or possibly a single vortex.

    "i'm getting quite excited about this scope :)"
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  10. 177

    177 Donator

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    That's a score :)

    I expect a full report as and when you've stopped admiring it and start using it :D
     
  11. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Will do lol, they need more reviews as it's hard getting info on them, especially compared to nikons.

    I'm also getting a falcon t50 10-50 tomorrow in a swap deal so will give that a compared to other scopes I have and give it a wizz before I no doubt will sell it on as 50x mag isn't much use to me :) I gave up shooting micro organisms.
     
  12. 177

    177 Donator

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    Yeah, in favour of shooting what lives on them...

    :)
     
  13. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    I had the same Dilema Tom a few months ago and narrowed my search down to either the Vortex diamondback or Nikon Bdc.

    I asked the same kind of questions on various sites, and got back mixed feedback.

    I also didn't like the thought of buying a Vortex without looking down one first as I did hear they can be eye relief fussy which puts me off a scope immediately, and the shop that could get them around here would have to order a specific model in so I would feel pretty daft walking away if I didn't like it.

    So at the end of the day you know Nikon already as I remember selling you the EFR and they are world wide already so well established, where as obviously Vortex are just kind of getting established over here.

    So my money would be on a non px Nikon and re parallax it for airgun work, easily done.

    Saying that I have neither anymore lol
     
  14. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Lol, what do you use now? Bushnells?
     
  15. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    Yep I always kept a couple of Bushnells since my first Bushnell scope bought in 1993 and found it to be pretty indestructible, only scope I trusted on a theoben eliminator that loved to eat scopes.

    My ideal airgun scope would be a fixed mag 6x40 elite, pxed down a bit, but unfortunately they only do the 10x40 elite and can be got for around £120 secondhand, and still a good HFT scope by anyones standards, Ive had a couple now and used them for hunting also, but for hft the px needed setting for about 30yrds so a 15 yrd target was just blurred and a 45yrd target was just blurred, made range finding great and didn't miss much up to 45 yrds but I like to see my quarry so opted for a 5-15x40 elite and a legend.

    I think the model I liked the look of in the Vortex range was a the Diamondback 4-12x40 AO as I like AO scopes better than SF, and IIRC swillington shooting could get them for a really good price, but I bought another Falcon for the HW as I just think it suits the gun to the ground, but If I was going for a vortex that's what I would get.

    Non px Nikons BDC scopes though are soo light and crisp I would buy one of those if it was just a lightweight hunting scope I was after, but I like to see a rabbits whiskers at 45 yrds on at least 12X mag that's me, Im always fiddling with the scopes in the field, best sticking to one system if you want quick range finding in the field and I find bushnell milldots so simple.
     

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