1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

.20 calibre

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by gtfreight, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. gtfreight

    gtfreight Not so busy member.

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    483
    Location:
    Rochdale
    I have seen lots of threads stating that .20 is a good compromise between .177 and .22.
    I have a theory and would like some opinions please.
    If you have a .177 rifle and find a heavy pellet that the gun likes would this not be as good as a .20? Also, on the same theory, with a .22 rifle using a light pellet would give a similar performance?
    Is my theory a plausible one or in practice would it just not work?
    Please forgive me if this has been discussed before.
     
  2. Clubshot

    Clubshot Clubshot

    Messages:
    3,469
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    North London. England
    .20 was a USA Calibre - Big issue is that several different Manufactures make Barrels

    Resulting in the need for Different .20 Sizes - like .177 & .22

    But these day's Pellet manufactures have improved the designes of .177 - Allowing it to cover most Air Gun Shooting

    BOB/R
     
  3. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

    Messages:
    7,724
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Location:
    Uttoxeter, Staffordshire.
    Ignore Bob, he just doesn't like .20 because they don't make 5mm pellets!:D

    A heavy .177 will NOT have the same flight characteristics I'm afraid. Neither does a light .22. On paper they should, but in practise they don't.

    Heavy .177 : due to the limitation of the diameter of the pellet - you can't make it wider! So to get the weight in the given diameter there are two possibilities, longer or more solid. Neither of which is desirable for hunting. For targets you don't want an overly heavy pellet, because you lose velocity. Losing velocity makes the flight arc greater.

    Now, going down the lighter .22 route. You would think that gaining a bit of flight arc flattening by gaining velocity would be good - and it is, but you can't get the same velocity as you can from .20. That is because going light in .22 is the opposite of going heavy in .177, in that the pellet has to be shortened, in which case it loses efficiency due to be too stubby for its diameter, or if you keep some length in it, it becomes too fragile and then gets damaged...making the thing inaccurate.

    The beauty of .20 is the balance of diameter and density. I will give you a comparison that is as close an experiment as I have heard of that shows the advantage of the cross sectional area of .20. A friend built two identical Rapids, the beauty of these rifles is that they can be tuned to shoot identically very easily. He built one in .20 and the other in .22, bothshooting at 975fps with Crossman Premiers. The beauty of Crossman Prems is that they are 14.3gns in both .20 and .22, so identical weight. The rifles were zeroed at 50 yards - remember, both the same velocity, same weight and shape pellet, same zero. He then put out a target it 100 yards and shot at it dead hold. The .20 pellets struck 5" higher than the .22 pellets. It had to be due to greater efficiency of flight.

    Here is a Venn diagram that sort of illustrates how the blend of characteristics of .20 provides the benefits. There are compromises with each calibre, the equilibrium of those compromises are best in .20 UNLESS you are purely target shooting.

    [​IMG]

    Everything else has to give a greater compromise in one area or another.
     
  4. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    Stevenage
    Where is my pop corn ....
     
  5. Ballisticboy

    Ballisticboy Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    543
    Location:
    Maidstone
    Looking at published pictures of the two the .2 Premier is aerodynamically a very different shape to the .22 (longer, presumably to get in the extra weight) and thus the two are in no way comparable. As I have said before, no-one makes identical design pellets in all the calibres so direct comparison by experiment is not possible. Even if there were identical design pellets in the different calibres you still have the problem of getting the same pellet barrel fit in your two experimental guns before you can compare the results which is going to prove difficult in practice. You would have to be able to fire interleaved serials of about 10 pellets from each gun under ideal carefully controlled conditions and compare the mean points of impact for a meaningful comparison which I doubt many are prepared or able to do.
     
  6. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

    Messages:
    7,724
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Location:
    Uttoxeter, Staffordshire.
    But it is a more meaningful comparison in real life than trying to compare a 11.4gn .2, 14.5gn .22 and 8.4gn .177 - that was the point. No it isn't a scientific test, but it is a very good amateur, hobbyist comparison - and out of those two rifles I know which I would sooner be using! :D
     
  7. gtfreight

    gtfreight Not so busy member.

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    483
    Location:
    Rochdale
    So, using a heavy .177 or a light .22 goes some way to a compromise but it would be better to .2 if you want the best of both worlds?
     
  8. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

    Messages:
    7,724
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Location:
    Uttoxeter, Staffordshire.
    Just find a friend who can lend you a .20 for the day and see how you get on. I know dozens of people who couldn't see the benefit who now use virtually nothing else, or at least the 20 is the one they take from choice. It is one of those things, some people get on with it, other people don't want to, more still are happy with what they have.

    I was talking to one of the big importers yesterday, for some info and in conversation the question of pellet sales came up. I couldn't believe how many pellets we get through in this country. This was just ONE iporter remember (Accupell we were talking about) they get through 8 pallets of them every 6 weeks! Just Accupells this is......and the figures are interesting:

    Accupell sales in .22 are 3x those in .177
    Accupell FT sales in .22 and .177 are 51% to 49%

    When he adds all the different pellets together .22 outsells .177 by a factor of 5x. I found it interesting with so many shouting about 177 yet .22 is way, way more popular. Just a bit of background info which folks might find interesting. .20 is very much in the minority, especially when you consider that .177 is still considered minor fare from the industry point of view.
     
  9. Clubshot

    Clubshot Clubshot

    Messages:
    3,469
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    North London. England
    Ignore Bob, he just doesn't like .20 because they don't make 5mm pellets!:D

    I do not make pellets ;)

    Pax Does - they have made .20 Pellets in the past - Originally for Ben Taylor - who then sold them onto Loguns as Penetrators in lead

    Also did one in Zinc - in Dynamic Range

    But as stated become a issue with Different Barrels -

    Shooters Choice what Calibre they use in UK - Some other Countries do not have a Choice -

    BOB/R
     
  10. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Location:
    Coventry
    There is also the theory that using .20 is getting the worst of both worlds !
     
  11. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Location:
    Coventry
    It's a well known fact that .22 has always been more popular in this country, it was bred into us. Other countries however have always preferred the smaller calibre and we have always been in the minority. I remember an old airgun world article where one of the reporters visited weirauch or one of the other German makers and they stated that nearly all their .22's were destined for the uk and they could not understand our obsession with the calibre.

    It took me years to make the switch as I was slowly weaned off the notion that .177 was not a hunting calibre. So there are still going to be plenty of uninitiated people out there in this country ordering nothing but .22
     
  12. gtfreight

    gtfreight Not so busy member.

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    483
    Location:
    Rochdale
    Good point!
     
  13. walker

    walker Busy Member

    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    the notion that .22 is bred into us i think is correct my mate who i shoot with who is alot older than me says when he was a kid all he knew was .22. so when he went to buy an air rifle he bought a .22. after shooting for a couple of years he's seen the superiority of .177 over .22. i see .22 as absolutely pointless in sub 12ftlb. ive got a .20 rapid and absolutely love the calibre. especially for hunting. and if i had to choose one calibre for good its would be a .20. but i do see the perks of .177 the only way to appreciate .20 is to try it. and chances are once you do you'll like it.
     
  14. Dag

    Dag Pro Poster

    Messages:
    5,787
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    There's something I'm having difficulty understanding in this thread.
    Why does a Venn diagram showing the .20 as an overlap have .25 included? Surely if that was relevant it should include .30. I would have thought the OP's point about it being between the two sizes .177 and .22 is all that is relevant.
    I guess there is something about .25 that I'm not understanding, is there?
    Dag :confused:
     
  15. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

    Messages:
    3,995
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Location:
    In Sparkling Isolation
    .25 has loads of impact energy but is difficult to place past 28 yards or so. .20 carries plenty of energy, flies pretty flat (I use FTT) and is still wide enough to leave a decent wound channel.

    .22 is somewhere between the two and is, at best, a compromise calibre.;)
     
  16. JD

    JD Donator

    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Location:
    Dorset
    Have you tryed .20 cal yet ?
     
  17. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Location:
    Coventry
    No and to be honest I am bi curious :) lol not in that way, but I am tempted by the .20 to be honest but having made the switch to .177 and loving the benefits it would seem like making a backward step to go back to a bigger pellet size again if that makes sense?

    Wasn't knocking the calibre when I said it maybe has the worst of both worlds, I was just looking at it from the other side of the coin from having the best of both worlds.

    In a nutshell, never tried it so can't knock it.
     
  18. Dag

    Dag Pro Poster

    Messages:
    5,787
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    I take your point Nick that the .22 is a compromise between .20 and .25 but I don't see how .25 has a bearing on .20 being a compromise when the two sizes either side are .177 and .22.
    I'm probably being thick ( Again? -Ed) but to take that to it's extreme I could say a .20 has some of the properties of a .177's trajectory and dropping a brick on a rabbit's head for impact :eek:
    It's not important I know but I just couldn't see how .25 fitted into the equation.
    Dag
     
  19. Mart61

    Mart61 Pro Poster

    Messages:
    5,903
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    My Regal is .20 and it's seems fine to me. Is it any more accurate, consistent or better than my .177 or .22 guns? I have no idea. Do I care? Not a jot.
     
  20. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Location:
    Coventry
    With all due respect I do.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice