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Question 12 Fpe When & Why?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by ukglyn, Jan 26, 2019.

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  1. ukglyn

    ukglyn Pro Poster

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    Thanks all for the input, I know see that it was the British air rifle manufacturers, who got it sorted to stop the competition.

    I personally like the 12 limit on my air rifles, but also still really enjoy shooting my powder burners as well, different tools for different jobs & enjoyment in my opinion.
     
    That hurts, r10hunter and Scott like this.
  2. Bruno27

    Bruno27 Engaging Member

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    May be have the wording changed to have 12fpe as a 'recommended' value :)
     
  3. smudger1234

    smudger1234 Guest

    Based on what? Comments from a few people on a forum. This is why information on the internet can be dangerous. One persons theory becomes fact and repeated again and again.
    British manufacturers are hardly going to be calling for a lobby to put a license on airguns, the government could easily have turned round and said that all airguns needed a license.
    A story I was told a long time ago (and I do put emphasis that it was world of mouth - but from a high up firearms officer) was that they needed to come up with a number. Given that 99% of airguns in the UK were British made it made sense to come up with a number that did not make a large proportion of airguns in circulation illegal. Push for a higher number and risk needing a license for all.

    As much as people like to feel like they are hard-done by, compare it to some of our other European countries and you will see that for airguns we rather privileged. Even countries with no restriction, like Netherlands, have strange rules (e.g. no realistic looking airguns and no hunting at all). Or Greece, no power limit but scopes and silencers are banned...
     
    Bagster66 and T 20 like this.
  4. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Looking outside the box

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    I read somewhere that over 12ft lb was required to penetrate the human skull [presumably adult] but have no idea whether there is anything in this... and penetration would be dependent on calibre. The other possible technical basis could be the velocity required to produce hydrostatic shock, which I believe is over 800fps. A sub-12 light .177 pellet can exceed this at the muzzle but not after just a few yards.

    I would have liked the limit to be 16-18ft lbs so with .177 you could get maximum aerodynamically stable velocity (~950fps) and flattest possible trajectory.
     
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  5. Mr wolf

    Mr wolf Sad times

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    Too close to skegvegas for my liking ;)
     
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  6. gasman

    gasman Up a bit,,,,,,,

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    Ive got a cracking picture of just that :rolleyes:a zero check on a rabbit, it’s Brutal :facepalm:
     
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  7. Geezer

    Geezer Big Poster

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    Back in the 80s, one of the American mags ran a story about shooting rabbits with a .458 Winchester Magnum.

    Closest I got to that was deer hunting in the US a while back, and shooting a fox (in season, with landowner agreement) in the heart-lung region at 70-90 metres with a Sierra Gameking bullet from a 30-06”. It was very dead.
     
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  8. gasman

    gasman Up a bit,,,,,,,

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    Yep it does have that affect
     
  9. FPoole

    FPoole Keyboard Hero

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    Airguns aren't even on the radar, here in America. If you're crazy, and you want to go shoot up a place, an airgun is not a sensible choice. I am totally for the 2nd amendment, but if you've ever had any kind of mental episode in your past you should have a big red stamp, or something, on your drivers license. It appears that every time we have a shooting, the perp has a history of mental problems.
     
  10. PaulB86

    PaulB86 Busy Member

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    Even the fact that air rifles in America are at least twice as powerful as the ones we are allowed in this country, here they would be classed as firearms, in America they are simply air rifles. if you want to be technical, a firearm is a weapon which is designed to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive. in otherwords, something that fires a round from the barrel using exploding gunpowder. not compressed air or gas. so our air rifles in this country over the 12ft/lbs limit should not even be called/classed as firearms. they are simply more powerful air rifles. so maybe in this country we can be trusted with more powerful air rifles, even if that means bringing in licenses for them. maybe include testing of some description to determine that in either caliber they are not powerful enough to kill a human should the police be worried that certain individuals may do that. and also make sure that such individuals never get their hands on such weapons.
     
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  11. FPoole

    FPoole Keyboard Hero

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    It's a sad state, but a criminal, or insane person, with money, will always be able to get a firearm.
     
  12. QuoVadis69

    QuoVadis69 Donator

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    As previously stated laws only affects the law abiding ! :facepalm:
     
  13. Blister

    Blister Busy Member

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    some idiots in the 1960 were shooting at cars over the Hammersmith flyover. so the gov brought in the law as the thought 12ft lbs would do less damage
     
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  14. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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    Think you may have misunderstood what I was saying buddy, the FAO said that “I” as a first time applicant would probably not get granted a license based on the ground that I’d be shooting over, obviously he’d need to see the ground first but based on my description of it then it’d be a no...
     
  15. T 20

    T 20 Busy Member

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    Well done Blister.

    After four pages of cobblers you give the correct answer. :)

    During the mid 60s a guy using an American Multipump Pneumatic was shooting the windows out on lorries and busses on the Hammersmith flyover which caused the Home Office to look at airgun power.

    The Home Office consulted many organisations in their research including Webley and BSA --- 10ftlbs was decided to be adequate for target and vermin shooting but the HO decided to go with 12ftlbs to give us a 2ftlb cushion.

    The only guns I can see that the new 12ftlb law outlawed were the multi pump guns from Benjamin, Sheridan, Crosman and Setra.

    The introduction of the 12ftlb limit was clearly introduced as just that, a limit, and had nothing to do with protecting British manufacturers as direct competition from Weihrauch, Original/Diana and BSF etc was unaffected by the introduction of the firearms act.
     
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  16. Patrick

    Patrick Donator

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    In that case why are they allowed to own/keep a firearm.Surely if anyone is known to have had a mental problem in the past they should be precluded from owning a firearm unless they could be certain that the condition/problem posed no risk to them owning a firearm.
     
  17. Andy_J

    Andy_J co2 Replica Airgun collector

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    In your opinion. You are not connected with the industry by any chance? Give us proof, not opinion. As if one instance of law breaking would cause such a knee jerk reaction. Introducing the limit does nothing to stop criminality and as you know any/most airguns can be made to easily exceed the power limit. It's like the handgun ban that only affected the law abiding. It didn't in the least stop criminals from using one.
     
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  18. Andy_J

    Andy_J co2 Replica Airgun collector

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    All our airguns, even a little co2 pistol firing steel bb's at 2ftlb are "Firearms".
    If we are being technical, this is the official definition: A firearm is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged" (section 57 (1) Firearms Act 1968):up:
     
    Patton likes this.
  19. Patton

    Patton Jack Reacher's big brother

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    And "lethal" is not defined. Lethal to a mouse would be sufficient to meet the definition.
     
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  20. Roger Archbold

    Roger Archbold Posting Addict

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    Club that I used to be a committee member of, had one member who was waiting to come off his medication before getting his FAC and another had attempted suicide, this one had all his rifles taken away, until he was deemed to be ok, the mind boggles
     
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