Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 114

Thread: Hw99 + Welsh Willy Ddraig Goch spring kit!

  1. #41
    Back away slowly.... 177's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Posts
    2,958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hatsan 60S with shortened barrel (obviously pictured without silencer):



    SMK XS19 with shortened barrel:



    5 shots from the SMK at 25 metres - I draw a small dot with a Sharpie to aim at, and the 5p is for scale (I used to love shooting this one in front of people who loudly proclaimed Chinese guns as being junk )



    Both guns benefited massively from the WW kits, but the Hatsan by far enjoyed the most noticeable change. The SMK was smooth and sedate from the off, while the Hatsan was a grinding pig and took the most work of any gun that I've tuned to date to get shooting nicely. Predictably, once I was happy with it, I sold it

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the longer spring theory - by and large a longer, lazier spring will produce a less lively shot cycle and can generate more power. This is how the FWB Sport took the world by storm in the power stakes and left everyone else, Weihrauch included, for dust. They basically used a longer spring with a softer action out of narrower gauge wire. Obviously that's a gross oversimplification and there's a lot more to it than that, but changing the spring might do the trick.

    I've had instances where a Titan number 2 in an HW80 was downright nasty while another Titan number 2 (same number of coils, diameter of wire, overall length, inside and outside diameter) resulted in a sweet shooting gun.

    Go figure.

    Anyhoo, good luck - Will is a gent in every sense and he will get you where you need to be. Keep us posted
    Springer, PCP, gas ram; the calibre doesn't matter, nether does the gun, or the scope. The calibre of the shooter, that's what matters...

  2. #42
    Registered 40+ posts SteveO_R10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    3,642
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole View Post
    Please take care what you post regarding 'power' be it up or down .........................
    Sorry Tad's if we have inadvertently let some info slip that may help naughty people! We are trying our best to be careful with what we post and only release information relevant to resolving the problem. ... anyway I can say with certainty now that shortening a barrel on a springer will cause a drop in power, I have just experienced this with my Stoeger and managed to regain the lost power by adjusting the Welsh Willy kit.
    My best friend and dad, 19-12-1940 - 14-04-2014 - R.I.P

  3. #43
    Registered 40+ posts SteveO_R10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    3,642
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 177 View Post
    Hatsan 60S with shortened barrel (obviously pictured without silencer):



    SMK XS19 with shortened barrel:



    5 shots from the SMK at 25 metres - I draw a small dot with a Sharpie to aim at, and the 5p is for scale (I used to love shooting this one in front of people who loudly proclaimed Chinese guns as being junk )



    Both guns benefited massively from the WW kits, but the Hatsan by far enjoyed the most noticeable change. The SMK was smooth and sedate from the off, while the Hatsan was a grinding pig and took the most work of any gun that I've tuned to date to get shooting nicely. Predictably, once I was happy with it, I sold it

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the longer spring theory - by and large a longer, lazier spring will produce a less lively shot cycle and can generate more power. This is how the FWB Sport took the world by storm in the power stakes and left everyone else, Weihrauch included, for dust. They basically used a longer spring with a softer action out of narrower gauge wire. Obviously that's a gross oversimplification and there's a lot more to it than that, but changing the spring might do the trick.

    I've had instances where a Titan number 2 in an HW80 was downright nasty while another Titan number 2 (same number of coils, diameter of wire, overall length, inside and outside diameter) resulted in a sweet shooting gun.

    Go figure.

    Anyhoo, good luck - Will is a gent in every sense and he will get you where you need to be. Keep us posted
    Barry how did you find the mod 60 to work on? I have to do one very shortly for my No.1 nephew!
    My best friend and dad, 19-12-1940 - 14-04-2014 - R.I.P

  4. #44
    Registered 40+ posts Meteor62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Coventry
    Posts
    4,376
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 177 View Post

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the longer spring theory - by and large a longer, lazier spring will produce a less lively shot cycle and

    I've had instances where a Titan number 2 in an HW80 was downright nasty while another Titan number 2 (same number of coils, diameter of wire, overall length, inside and outside diameter) resulted in a sweet shooting gun.
    Have found this too just recently, Titan spring in my 77 gave harsh recoil and 10 fpe whilst an ox 2" longer gives a smidge under the limit and half the recoil.
    Hunting a Daystate Huntsman classic, plinking with a mk1 and mk5 meteor. Customising a Crosman 2240.

  5. #45
    Back away slowly.... 177's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Posts
    2,958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveO_R10 View Post
    Barry how did you find the mod 60 to work on? I have to do one very shortly for my No.1 nephew!
    It's a simple enough gun to work on and with - my particular example was one of the worst built guns I have ever worked on though. I've done a few others since which were miles ahead of mine so maybe mine was an end of shift job

    Watch out for nicking the piston seal when reassembling

    Physically they're a big gun, roughly on a par with an HW80, so plenty of room to manoeuvre.

    Mine was very nice once I was done monkeying around with it - I only got rid when I ran out of room in the cabinet, then bought another cabinet and ran out of room in that

    Performance with unweighed .22 Superdomes averaged 11.41 FPE with an impressive 5 fps extreme spread over a 5 shot string:

    597 fps
    596 fps
    596 fps
    592 fps
    595 fps

    The gun didn't like Falcon Accuracy Plus which more or less fell into the barrel and resulted in low and inconsistent FPE but it got on very well with Superdomes and H&N Field Target and Trophy pellets.

    Also watch out for the 'keeper' bolt placement at the front if the action.

    Nice trigger and a great auto safety.

    Lots to recommend
    Last edited by 177; 27-07-2013 at 09:16 AM.
    Springer, PCP, gas ram; the calibre doesn't matter, nether does the gun, or the scope. The calibre of the shooter, that's what matters...

  6. #46
    Registered 40+ posts SteveO_R10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    3,642
    Post Thanks / Like
    I just received my new full length Titan XS No.5 main spring along with an assortment of Delrin preload washers from Will, I'm positive this spring will be making the gun run hot (if I can even get the thing in the gun) and will be cutting and adjusting to ensure its legal later! You just can't fault the service from Woodfield GCP - Outstanding!!
    My best friend and dad, 19-12-1940 - 14-04-2014 - R.I.P

  7. #47
    Back away slowly.... 177's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Posts
    2,958
    Post Thanks / Like
    A number 5 is quite a jump up for a 99

    Keep us posted
    Springer, PCP, gas ram; the calibre doesn't matter, nether does the gun, or the scope. The calibre of the shooter, that's what matters...

  8. #48
    Registered 40+ posts SteveO_R10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    3,642
    Post Thanks / Like
    So I started again on the Hw99 today with the intention on increasing the power to original levels before the barrel was shortened, From research I expected this to be 11 - 11.50ft/lb. I took out the Welsh Willy spring from the Ddraig kit and counted its 25 coils, The Titan XS No.5 has 33 coils. I got some threaded rod and compressed the new spring so I could measure the compressed length and then measured the internals of the Hw99 when cocked and with the trigger engaged.... the new spring would fit nicely without cutting but I expected the power to be up a bit on legal. I reassembled and chrono'd the gun... 10.00 ft/lb! Good start! slightly up on 9.5 but I'm trying to get this back up in the elevens. I try to add the thinnest shim that comes with the Ddraig kit but the trigger mechanism won't engage when I cock the gun... its coil bound! I take out the spring and remove 3 coils and replace with the shims... 9.5ft/lb. I work out from the original Ddraig spring that with the shims fitted I have room to fit one extra coil in the cylinder before its coil bound again. So I cut the spring, work the end, grind and polish and refit... 9.75ft/lbs. My theory is that this particular model of Weihrauch is tuned within a millimetre of its existence from the factory, it's at it's limit, once you shorten the barrel you have irreparably lowered the power and nothing you can do will raise it again, it simply has not got enough capacity to take a spring big enough to balance it out again! So that's it 9.75ft/lb! I'm happy with that though because of the accuracy at 30 yards... Its very smooth and the cocking action is a lot easier also.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 1.jpg (71.1 KB, 20 views)
    My best friend and dad, 19-12-1940 - 14-04-2014 - R.I.P

  9. #49
    Registered 40+ posts smithys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    letchworth garden city
    Posts
    326
    Post Thanks / Like
    short barrel or long barrels longer spring or shorter, mmm now i see a pattern ive read post to me i would have sent the gun to a professional to sort, but then how else will you learn cant beat a little diy. but my first port of call would have used a bit of tissue around breach to see if breech seal was damaged or wrong one fitted, sounds like you found other issue and sort of semi fixed them, im not convinced short barrels are a cause of lower power maybe a issue for distance, i have three short barreled rifles one is to hard to keep under the magic number it keeps creeping near 13fps when warmed up but thats the ram for you, many years ago i took two identical tune guns with different length barrels and power wasn't the issue i found. anyway i hope you solve your issue and discover so tricks along the way, but if it was sent to a professional to tune and fit how would some learn but then on the other hand less arse ache and a returned sweet tweaked gun. its what works for you, we have different ideas and requirements.

  10. #50
    Back away slowly.... 177's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Posts
    2,958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Nope, my theory is your gun has a fundamental issue (probably that buttoned piston) since I already know from experience that an out of the box 99 can do more than that and a kitted one definitely can.

    Have you got the original piston or is that the one that was buttoned ?

    Triple check the breech seal to ensure you aren't losing power there. Ditto to the piston seal.

    If at all possible go back to original (ignoring the shortened barrel) and work up.

    Power isn't everything but the 99 is easily capable of our UK limit so somethings gone awry - it's tough to troubleshoot without physical access to the gun but of the previously mentioned guns that I shortened, one f them dropped a tiny amount of power and the other didn't so much as change a whiff.

    The trick with many tuning kits these days is keeping the gun UNDER the limit...
    Last edited by 177; 28-07-2013 at 22:02 PM.
    Springer, PCP, gas ram; the calibre doesn't matter, nether does the gun, or the scope. The calibre of the shooter, that's what matters...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •