This is a discussion on Thoughts on the UK Air Gun Law within the Anything Airgun Related forums, part of the Airguns category; After reading many of the threads on the various airgun forums & recent press, it strikes me that we seem ...
After reading many of the threads on the various airgun forums & recent press, it strikes me that we seem to be pretty sure on what we are allowed in relation to Lbs/ft uk A/G power law.
But what is stopping any toerag buying an a/g and powering up to do no good with. We all seem legit with why we shoot and it seems that the UK law is what causes us to have the bad press - NOTHING.
If we had to be registered as say the Airsoft guys are (can not buy a proper bb airsoft without being registered) then this could save us all alot of greif when a **** desides to go and kill swans or shoot in a public place causing grief.
My thoughts are most airgunners are responsable law abiding people, I would have no objection to being registered ie licenced. As other weapons we would suffer the same conditions as say shotguns/F/A, BUT with this the power limit could be set at max 20lbs/ft as in most european countries, this would be more than enough of hunting & target and to put bluntly keep most people wanting to tinker with there gun. Anything over the limit would require a section 1 as current.
This could put a stop to idiots just walking into a shop and walking out with a gun to cause no good. As we all know we have to ensure that the gun is now (feb2011) be stored in a safe or secure place, then there would be no reason for anyone to have posession without a ticket ie nicking the gun from someones house. All our rifles have serial number so why not register them????
Just a thought as we seem to be getting in the press more & more for the wrong reason!!!!
Last edited by tpg2011; 06-03-2011 at 09:45 AM.
The theory seems sound (to me at least), however,as other people have posted, on similar topics the logistics would be a nightmare!
The other problem with this, is the fact that we continuously seem to be looking for ways to add restrictions to ourselves, thus saving the government the effort of doing it - it's not always a bad idea to get in a pre-emptive strike though!
Something I posted (about three years ago) on a different forum.............
Recently, a few people have been mentioning how they think that there should be some form of registration or licensing for airguns; especially in light of the recent incidents where one child died, and another was taken to hospital.
I have given this subject some thought, and come up with what I think could be the basis for self-regulation plan for airgunners. I sent this to the mods/admins yesterday, for their comments, and even including the negative points that were pointed out, it got a generally good response.
Think it through after you read it; at first, it appears that this scheme is giving away some of our current rights/freedom to use airguns - but, I think we need to be proactive, and if we can come up with a workable solution for regulation it will be a benefit to us.
After the childs death, it is not going to take many more airgun incidents before some 'suit' in the government decides to try and ban airguns completely, or limit the muzzle energy to 7.5 ft/lb as is the case in Germany.
Have a read through this, and give it some thought, if you can think of anything that could be helpful (either added, changed or taken out) then post it.
If you think it's a sh1t idea, or a good idea, then post that too, with reasons, if you have one.
Some of the points that the mods raised, are right at the bottom of this post.
A proposal for self regulation and licencing by airgunners.
This is an initial outline of a proposal for voluntary airgun licencing and registration scheme.
A voluntary licencing and/or registration scheme would hae benefits for the police, air gun users, and indirectly, for the public as a whole.
Among the benefits for the police, would be -
More accurate details of the number of active air gun users.
More accurate details of the addresses/locations of air gun users.
A better idea of the safety precautions that airgun users take.
Closer monitoring of air gun use.
Greater confidence that air gun users have an understanding of legal
and technical issues relating to the sport/hobby.
Greater confidence that volunteers in the scheme are adhering to
current laws and regulations.
Benefits for airgun users -
Details of airuns recorded in case of loss/theft.
Shows that they are responsible owners/users.
Give them a basic knowledge of airgun legislation.
Could provide a stepping stone to SGC/FAC.
Increase awareness of the dangers of airguns.
Benefits to the public -
Shows that police and airgun users are proactive.
Shows that airgun users are not all thugs/vandals
Reassurance that .minimum safety levels can be measured
and adhered to.
Confidence that offences/misdemeanors will be dealt with
promptly and effectively.
Registration and licencing.
This could operate on a tier level; the higher the level that the user achieves, would demonstrate a greater understanding of the problems faced by the police when dealing with potential offences/safety issues.
Level 1. (possibly carried out online via the local police web-site)
Simple registration of airguns. Details kept to a minimum, but including -
Name
Address
Make/model of airgun(s)
Serial number(s) of airgun(s)
Level 2. (A short course (one day or less) which would include)
Registration of airguns
Safety check carried out on the airgun(s)
Airgun law
Knife law
Airgun safety
Airgun maintenance
Basic marksmanship principles
Different uses of airguns
ie. Pest control/hunting
Target
FT/HFT
Paintball
Basic first aid techniques (specific to airgun/knife injuries)
Identification of airgun legal quarry species
Level 3. (Includes previous levels)
Proof that airguns are securely stored in a gun safe
Demonstrate more detailed knowledge of airgun/firearm law
Demonstrate more detailed knowledge of airgun/firearm safety
A level 3 'licence holder' might then be allowed to own/use an airgun with a greater muzzle energy
than 12 ft/lb (possibly up to 25 ft/lb) in the same manner that a current FAC owner would be. This would in effect, be a 'lite' or 'cutdown' version of a current section 1 FAC licence, and would also be an incentive to go through this process.
Level 1 could be a free service, as it is carried out online, or at the front desk of any local police station.
Level 2 & 3 could incur a small nominal fee to cover the course costs/extra administration, and the issue of a 'cutdown' FAC (airgun specific) licence for airguns over 12 ft/lb.
Cost (to police/government/participants)
Time (FLO already busy, how long it takes to implement)
Lack of interest from airgunners
Govenment/public/police unwilling to allow more powerful airguns
What level of security would be needed for airgun storage (maximum/minimum)
The number of airguns already 'in the wild' (estimated 4-6 million)
Problems with guns currently unknowingly over the limit
There were other points made, but the idea is for you lot to think about this, see what we come up with, and then if we think it's worth it, post it on other forums, and see where it goes.
There is not really any representation for airgunners per se, in the UK, unlike in other countries, and if we just sit around, other people will make rules and regulations that we don't like, but then it may be too late to do anything about it.
Once the government ban something, it rarely becomes unbanned!
Thanks teabag_46 intreasting to see other peoples take on the issue. Think your ideas a good one.
Problem isent with legitimate owners its always going to be with idiots. You cannot legisiate against numptys.
I think we are penalised far too much for the actions of the few. Gun legislation doesent stop illegal firearms, it doesent stop people illegally modifing air weapons and it doesent stop gun crime. All it achevies is to make it harder for law abiding citizens to own a gun for sport and easier to penalise if and when the police decide.
Criminals dont care if you need a licence or a cabinet or ammo storage when there out there selling drugs and robbing people its just a occupational hazard. These people can easily buy handguns/automatic weapons and all other manner of weaponry because they have lots of money and the ability to get these weapons smuggeled into the uk like the drugs they sell.
You could ban every weapon in the uk and it would make absolutely no difference beacause its not you, me or anyone else who ligitemately owns a firearm who commits these crimes as you would need to be a complete idiot to commit a crime with a gun registered to you in your house where the police inspect and if your that stupid then there really is no good reason that will ever stop you. If fits not a gun that could be used to do harm its a knife or a crossbow which you can ligitametely own with power most airgunners would envy, or a bat the list go's on if someone wants to commit a violent act.
So we can put our names on all kind of lists and legislate all we want but you won't stop the human detritus doing all they know how to do and ruining it for the rest of us. What we need is stiffer laws for weapons offences and magistrates that will act with the full force of the law.
As all the legislation in the world wont save you from violent criminals and the mentally ill and the sooner our govrnments realise this the better.
Agree 100%.Originally Posted by Knight Guitars
All that licensing would achieve would be to make owning an airgun a PITA for responsible owners while doing nothing to stop criminal misuse.
This has been done to death over and over again.
Yeah its seems a good idea but its not.
Would cost a fortune to do, wouldnt work when it was done and most of all it would just make it harder for legit people to shoot.
As someone else said you cant legislate against numptys and criminals.
Criminals break the law whether or not they need a license dosen't matter to them.
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The other thing to be ware of is once any licensing came into force it would only be the thin end of the wedge. Ashley Cole would have had no problem getting as license, and the reaction after such a high profile incident would not be to say licensing was a waste of time, but the conditions aren't tough enough. So then you'd maybe have to prove you needed an airgun in the first place, perhaps a ban on multi shot weapons would follow after something else happened, then a reduction in power and finally an outright ban altogether.
Politicians lack the moral courage to resist tabloid calls for action even when they know new laws are often a waste of time.
Knee jerk reactions are all governments are good for give the masses a token jesture to keep them amused. The general public only believe what there sold by the sensationalist tabloid press who seem to have forgotten the difference between factual news and gossip. If you mention a handguns or automatic weapons you must be a gun mad mass murderer. If you like to hunt your an inhumane neanderthal. Its all made up by middle of the road pc backstabbers who are far more interested in coming across as innofensive to hide there generally dubious double standards. The people that come up with commissions and quangos and stop our kids playing with conkers and tried to have the gurkers struck off the state pension.
The same fools that generally make up magistrates and give burglars more rights then home owners. Unfortunately the masses are normally quite dim and happy to go along with whatever crap there told so its up to us to promote the sport in a positive light and watch each other's backs when the anti's come knocking.
Here in CANADA, we did this Registration bit, actually its still in effect despite our current governments attempts to UN-DO IT - opposition parties gang-up on the current party in power and legislation does NOT get enough votes to GET RID OF IT.
Canada is divided into EAST and WESTERN Canada.....those down east are city folk who know nothing of gun-sport, ONLY GUN-VIOLENCE. As such they raise cain with their members of Parliament anytime there is any notion of canceling Gun registration. Majority of population of Canada is Down EAST....hence the difficulty - Western Canadians want it cancelled, Eastern Canadians want it kept. True there are some Easterner's that are gun owners too...but they are FEWER in number.
Problem is that this costs BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, for legislation that does NOT DETER CRIMINALS - They don't obey ANY laws, so HOW is ANY rfegistration law going to STOP their activity ? They just smuggle in Guns or steal guns to use in their crime. Western canadians would INSTEAD LIKE to take these BILLIONS of dollars and use it for MORE POLICE, MORE COURTS, MORE JAILS and to CHANGE the PAROLE SYSTEM to keep these ciminals in JAIL LONGER.
Gun control in Canada has been a DISMAL FAILURE....costs a lot to achieve NOTHING. What it has done is discourage Legimate Honest gun owners from hunting sports here in Western Canada, because of all the ways these laws are being interpreted.....too many ways to be charged with serious offenses for doing little or nothing, leading to costly and lengthy court challenges to be found INNOCENT. As such, with reduced hunting, the wild game have had perfect conditions to dramatically increase their numbers. Where I may have seen 1-3 deer in a year come into my yard before gun control, NOW I'm seeing herds of 15-50 deer come into my farmyard.....and they are DESTRUCTIVE. Also, following these herds are COUGARS, their numbers are increasing too.
Some progress has been made; recently the practice of giving the ciminal 2 years less Jail Time for each year they were in jail going thru the trial period.....has been STOPPED. They now get 1 year for 1 year spent waiting....a small improvement.
We USED to have the law; IF you used a gun in the commission of a crime it was an AUTOMATIC 10 years Jail time...PLUS whatever jailtime you got for the actual crime itself. BUT the law was pushed through without all the loop-holes being dealt with, AS SUCH crafty lawyers have watered down this law to the point where its USELESS TODAY. Add to this the current Parole system.....criminals are getting out after serving just a few years in jail. Its Driving Canadians CRAZY !! We are MAD-AS-H*** !!
IN SHORT.....DO-GOODERS can cause more harm than all the CRIMINALS !
Today, I can't buy a gun, even an airgun directly from the USA, they demand that we buy from a candian gun shop that represents them instead, as such our airguns are usually REGISTERED by they time we get them. This process takes forever....months before you get the gun.
REGISTRATION; NO THANKS...its nothing but hassles, headaches, frustration, and a BIG pain-in-the-B*** !!
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